Freedom of speech for me but not for thee

So many “yeah but... “ comments on all these posts about someone arrested without a warrant and deported with no legal pretense at all. Pathetic boot licking behavor. Pick a side or get out of our way.

Fuck Balestine

"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."
Frank Wilhoit

This is the right wing. You can't expect to have a logical argument with them.

Imagine thinking not abridging free speech means that you can’t go after press/people that are knowingly lying.
Like, no, this is not what free speech means. Scientific fact are no opinions. You can only have the opinion that a scientific fact was not an scientific fact at all, but as soon as it is scientifically proofed that this is not the case, it is no opinion anymore, but just a wrong statement.

Fun fact, the US government can revoke a person's Naturalization if the government thinks you are a "terrorist" within 5 years of Naturalization:
A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if the person becomes a member of, or affiliated with, the Communist party, other totalitarian party, or terrorist organization within five years of his or her naturalization. In general, a person who is involved with such organizations cannot establish the naturalization requirements of having an attachment to the Constitution and of being well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.
The fact that a person becomes involved with such an organization within five years after the date of naturalization is prima facie evidence that he or she concealed or willfully misrepresented material evidence that would have prevented the person’s naturalization.
Source: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2
As a US Citizen that has Derivative Citizenship, this is honestly terrifying. Its one of the reasons I'm too afraid to protest. I don't want to end up stateless.
If I was a white US-born Citizen, I might be more willing to protest.
- A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if the person becomes a member of, or affiliated with, the Communist party, other totalitarian party, or terrorist organization within five years of his or her naturalization.
  It's funny they still act like communist parties are a threat in 2025
  I wonder if and whenever the Republican party will be marked as one.
- Not joining a terrorist organization or other extremist group for five years is not much of a problem really.
  Most people manage to not join terrorist organizations for their whole life.
  
  Until the government changes the definition of a terrorist organization.

"If you don't like it you can leave" is such a shit argument that I keep hearing, the whole point of democracy is that if you don't like it you are allowed to complain and vote to change the situation. Implying someone doesn't have the right to complain or change an existing system is just how fascism works...
- Fun Fact (or maybe a "Not-so-fun" Fact): The US government can revoke a person’s Naturalization if the government thinks you are a “terrorist” within 5 years of Naturalization:
  A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if the person becomes a member of, or affiliated with, the Communist party, other totalitarian party, or terrorist organization within five years of his or her naturalization. In general, a person who is involved with such organizations cannot establish the naturalization requirements of having an attachment to the Constitution and of being well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.
  The fact that a person becomes involved with such an organization within five years after the date of naturalization is prima facie evidence that he or she concealed or willfully misrepresented material evidence that would have prevented the person’s naturalization.
  Source: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2
  
  That is true and actually had been a thing during George W. Bush's terms in the 2000s during the height on the War on Terror. If he and his administration thought you were a terrorist (even going as far as to criticize the then-administration), you got your citizenship revoked.
- I've heard that dumb argument a lot, being touted from GOP voters at every turn. It's their speed-dial of an argument whenever someone props up any issue that they see wrong, usually because of something tied to GOP, is when they will bring that argument up.
  No, I'm not fucking going anywhere just to appease you and your batshit ideals. I'm going to remain here and probably give you hell just because you're simply annoyed by the fact that there are people who live and think differently than you do and you have to co-exist with that. Or don't and you take your chances by trying to act it out so we can get all of this pent up bullshit frustration out over political differences. Whichever works.
  And I want anyone in their country to stand and fight for change in their country. If you keep running away all of the time, you are letting them win and destroy what you call home and your country that you identify with.
  
  My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. It is everyone's civic duty to guide their country in a positive direction.
- Exactly. I tell folks all the time one of the most patriotic things you can do is protest for change.

guns

Now they are deporting people legally in the US who didn't break any laws.
It's not even about deporting illegal immigrants anymore.
- It never was. It's always been about oppression.
  
  First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a socialist.
  Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist.
  Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew.
  Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
  With Fascists it's always the same playbook: start with an easily demoniseable minority and over time extend it to the rest.

“We the people. . .” yah sure magat
- Well, obviously the "we" means it only applies to us, not to them.
  /s for avoidance of doubt.
  
  Exactly
- People: definition in america: Anyone who has south or mid english ancestrys and holds land + has an income of high income

They want people to "follow the rules", but see the "rules" change every day, depending on what mood the rulers are in. It also depends on the color of your skin to them, if its not white, you're always breaking the "rules" no matter what.
- "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

I've learned in hearing conservatives talk about the ammendments, that they can only count to two. So long as they start at two.
- They never agree with you when you cite the 8th

Freedom is always the freedom of the obedient.
Purple Belgium

Terrorism has always been an exception to free speech, this isn't new. Whether this is terrorism or not is debatable.
- Saying "fuck Israel" is objectively not terrorism though
- What did he say that was inciting terrorism?
- Debatable only insomuch as some people want to paint free speech as such

Well, there is nuance in there. But I'm sure that's not what this post is about.
Criticising Israel for brutal action against civilians - justified. Calling for the externination of Israel and its population - nazi stuff.
Unfortunately, many of the loudest "anti-zionist" peops seem to be actively for the latter approach, or willingly aid people that strive for it. To that I say: fuck off
- It’s not “Nazi stuff” to call for the abolishment of Israel.
  It’s a settler-colonial apartheid state actively involved in the complete extermination of the indigenous population. That’s actual Nazi stuff.
  Most “Israelis” have another passport. They can go back to their own countries, or give up the state of Israel then live in the new Palestinian territory. No one’s talking about exterminating Israelis, not even while they actively exterminate Palestinians.
  As we’ve seen with the way Israeli hostages were treated by Palestinians - fed, taken care of, birthdays celebrated is a stark contrast to how Palestinian prisoners are treated - starved, beaten, raped, tortured, set upon by dogs, buried alive. Decent Israelis would have nothing to fear if the whole land just transitioned to Palestinian territory.
  There’s no issue with Judaism as a religion, or Jewish people. But Zionism is not Judaism, it’s just fascism, and the state of Israel is a fascist, genocidal state.
  When the West Bank is being invaded and you have Trump talking about exterminating the remaining population of Gaza and building resorts on top of the land can you really keep telling yourself that Zionism and the state of Israel aren’t pure fascism?
  
  No one’s talking about exterminating Israelis, not even while they actively exterminate Palestinians.
  Well, I heard exactly that from multiple Lemmy user by now. To be fair, they normally come from certain instances, but it is definitely not no one.
  
  Do you have a source on that dual citizenship claim? If you look at how they are treated even in Sweden, can you imagine forcing them to move back to the neighboring states where many of them came from?
  Israeli politics are shitty and they are comitting war crimes but but lets be honest, jews are not safe anywhere else than perhaps the US. Having them move or just giving up their own country is no better than forcing the US to give back their country to the native americans. We are living in the now and most israelis are born in israel and are not responsible for what is happening there. The only good solution is to have two states, everything else will result in further conflict.

- What?
  Not all Jewish people are supporting Israel's Genocide.
  
  And not all men are predators, and not all drug users are addicts.
  What's your point?
- I hate it, when people link states with religion and think all citizens have the same opinion like their fascist government.
  Like I don’t link US with christianity and say fuck all Christian people because Trump is doing shit.
  
  Perhaps I poorly worded my comment. What I meant was that I've always automatically taken the side of Jews whenever some event or situation came about that I involved them. I always assumed antisemitism played a part, but seeing the gleeful cheer and violent rhetoric from so many Israeli Jews has soured me on the benefit. I won't make a knee jerk judgement call anymore.