Social identity is a helluva drug

And they can also continue to blame Biden.
- Yes, this is all they will do.
  Shun them. Trump supporters are evil, try and avoid working for them or with them in any way. Don't talk to them. There is no need to be friendly. These people are actually supporting a Nazi revival.
  
  That's what I'm saying but my wife says I still gotta go to her dad's house with her.
  I really, really, have no interest in talking to that man. She shouldn't either. He was a shit human before Trump was president and he'll be a shit human long after. Half his kids (none of her full siblings, just her half- and step- siblings...her moms side is like some of the best people I've met and my MIL is probably the nicest lady in the world) are equally shitty, as are half his grandkids.
  I mean hell, she gave up Target because of DEI, and she visits Target far more often.
  Aitah?

Are we all just cowering down? Reading these comments makes it sounds like we should just all give up.

That and cons will always find a way to spin something to cause outrage and anger towards anyone but themselves.

All Trump's gotta do is blame the Dems. Already going that route
- And his dumb ass parrots will repeat his lies forever no matter what evidence they’re presented with

Doubt, fortunately. The extremists will largely never be turned, but most Trump supporters are moderates who care more about their own well-being than solidarity with the group. Mussolini is a great example of how an idiot dictator can quickly fragment his supporters and end up in the streets
- "You can't reason out of a position you didn't come to through reason."
  They just hate for hate sake. It's time to come to terms that the dumb will not be saved by gentle parenting but need to be dragged into reality.
  
  Sure, but most of Trump's voters did vote for him for a reason: their lives got noticeably harder under Biden. When their lives get even worse under Trump, they'll vote for another change of party.
  The cultists waving Trump flags and buying Trump teddy bears and reading Trump bibles are fueled by identity politics, but the idea that the average Trump voter is one of those cultists is a lie that Trump would very much like you to believe
- "quickly" only after massive damage is done.

Y’all learned nothing from the election if you’re still trying to turn them.
- not trying to turn them
  trying to thin them.
  
  If we had taxpayer universal healthcare, that'd be easy. Just give them all semaglutide. Problem solved.

I just encountered this last night with hardcore Trumper family members. They believe his tariffs are because the tariffed countries have their military subsidized by the American government and they need to pay their fair share. They think xwe're going to have to "feel a little pain" for a year or two, then "it" will be better. What is "it"? Who the hell knows. They certainly don't.
- My dad isn’t a Trump supporter but he sure sounds like one. He’s fine with tariffs because “we won’t be paying them”. The underlying belief is that we shouldn’t import electricity or other goods, we should be producing our own, we should be self sustaining. And these tariffs are speeding up factories to open up in the states and produce US goods. The adjustment period (a few years at most) will be hard but worth it in the end - everything will be US made. Wohoo?
  Never mind that our current infrastructure is crumbling and nothing is being done about it. And Trump is siphoning off any resources the us has. Never mind that many people today live paycheck to paycheck and as a result of this self imposed trade war will starve or freeze to death in the interim. Never mind that even if the US government decided to invest in this, it would take many many many decades to make US self sustaining, and once achieved prices will be higher than if we were to import the goods.
- Yanis Varoufakis explains the reasoning
  
  That's a great read and makes a ton of sense. Thank you!

Group think is bad. Larger the group the lower the IQ.
- Does that count here and on Reddit? Although I'll say here on Lemmy, folks are much more open to actual dialogue than on Reddit.
- So like music, the more popular the simplest chords it has.

No, they're selfish and borderline retarded sheep. When a few retarded sheep start making the suffering noise, they'll all join the chorus because they don't have the capacity for independent thought

Reverse the kremlin playbook:
Talk to conservatives and be like: "Both side are the same, I'm voting Libertarian"

There is no need to swing Trump voters over.
There are more citizens who did not vote at all who can be engaged with and energized - because these policies are going to fuck them too.
- We need to pretend to be conservative and be like: "I VOTED TRUMP AND HE DID NOTHING FOR ME, BOTH SIDE ARE THE SAME, I'M VOTING LIBERTARIAN 😡😡😡"
  If half of conservatives voted a third party candidate, it would splinter the republican party.
  Aka: the Reverse Kremlin stretegy
- One danger, though: Trump’s campaign managers will try to swing them as well.
  I am hopeful! But it will be a fight.
  
  Imagine both parties swinging to third party accidentally 😏 -> 1/4, 2/4, 1/4
  Too good to be true, lol

GUNS

It's very frustrating.
What I've seen when I bring what's happening up to family members step one is denial "oh he's not doing that" step 2 is defend "well it's probably for the best, kids do yern for the mines".
Nothing is convincing.
- I remember a moment before the election in 2016. A family member was going off on a Trump worshiping rant. I asked them what they thought of all the awful things that come out of his mouth. They responded with, "Oh, he's just saying that stuff because he likes to get attention."
  I quoted a passage from Luke's gospel. "The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil; for it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks."
  What happened next was amazing. They kind of paused and stared at their shoes with this expression that, if I could put words to it, would have said, "Shit. He's got me there. How do I get around this one?" They then looked up, physically shrugged it off; like water off a ducks back. That stopped the rant but I knew that If they had to choose between Jesus and this particular version of the anti-christ, their choice was already made and it wasn't Jesus.
  
  I've been there friend. It is not a fun experience but it was very enlightening. Someday they may see it but it is terrifying to understand how willingly ignorant some of us choose to be.
- Stages of grief. Most are just getting to denial.
  My 90 year old grandma has moved onto bargaining. She's trying to write a letter to DJT to "warn him about Musk"
  Not bad progress, considering I couldn't get her to budge at all over the past decade.
  
  That's kind of adorable.
- It doesn't help that they have literally been programmed by right and far right propaganda that only influences and reinforces that mentality of "unity".
  
  the media titans know what they're doing
- I’m a member of a lot of hiking communities on FB. Prior to Trump second presidency, they would blame any kind of problems related to insufficient budgeting to “ sending all money to Ukraine”. Now that he’s the president, and is BLATANTLY cutting budgets to national parks and forests, I see his supporters say “ it’s too bad we donated so much money to the national parks of Ukraine” or “ if Biden did this, you wouldn’t be complaining”, or some version of “ this is necessary, nothing really changed”.
  
  Wild, would assume a hiking community would lean pretty solidly blue and be livid about cuts to national parks. As the last handful of elections have shown though, there are idiots all over the political spectrum.
- It's also defending the cult leader mentality. Breaking with the cult puts you on the outside, and an enemy of the cult. Breaking free of a cult isn't easy when the cult's actions are constantly being reinforced and regurgitated by their leader and his media disinformation networks.

If only they agreed that Social Security, Universal Healthcare and just being nice to each other is better for everyone.
If we try to increase the quality of life for everyone, we'll have a better world.
- Some people can't be happy unless they're constantly angry about the people they were told to hate.
  We call them gammons over here.

They are trash people who are lost causes

Believe it or not, there are already MAGA people pissed at him in hard red states/districts.
- Yep, and they'll vote every Republican in again next time regardless.
  99/100 of em are lost causes.
- Ah yes, the "Pity me, I didn't get mine" crowd.

I doubt it will be noticeable overnight, but at least some of his supporters will be pushed into a degree of impoverishment that inhibits political engagement.
- They aren't engaged now. Anyone who really looks at politics beyond the talking points that are delivered by the right knows how insane the right is.
  Lack of citizen engagement makes it easier to blame immigrants and trans women.
  
  OK, I have read some evidence that shows how when a level of impoverishment is reached, people are too preoccupied with day to day and week to week survival to bother with voting or much of any other civil engagement.
  I won't waste more time on this, I'm not interested in arguing over the definition of 'disengaged'.
- Isnt that what most of his voter base already is?
  
  The fact that they voted means they are not disengaged.
  Yours might have just been an offhand comment, but as it might be a genuine question I provided a brief answer.
- People in the grave can no longer vote for Trump.

I actually disagree.
There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid. They'll be forced out of necessity to interact with people across the aisle who are giving them compassion.
You're already seeing republicans flipping before that point from the DOGE cuts. Also, the governor of Kentucky is already flipping after their largest purchaser by a long-shot, Canada, took all their booze off the shelves.
- I think this overlooks how most MAGAs are rural.. and when you live rural you already rely on your neighbors. Most of which are also white and the exceptions are ""one of the good ones."" It's why they can demonize entire demographics and still feeling like a good person since they're good neighbors.
  They're not going to stop blaming 'the others' for hardships.. They're just going increase complaints about 'the government' and how much they pay in taxes.
  I grew up in Amish country/farmland and it's painful to see how stagnant my family has been over the years.
- The question is, will I have reached a breaking point where I will no longer be willing to help them?
- Doubt (x) seeing as he was elected twice, they won't ever learn it will always be the "other guys" politician's fault
- There is a tipping point when MAGA followers are forced into situations where they must rely on their neighbour and mutual aid.
  By the time we reach that point, there won't be an aisle. There won't be a government.
- Andy Beshear isn't a Republican who flipped, he's always been a Democrat.
- I really hope that this is what’s gonna happen.

Not every Trump voter is a die hard MAGA, a large amount just don't pay attention and vote republican out of habit because the media has told them for decades that Republicans are better for the economy or just because that is the party their parents voted for.
- Knew 2 guys that just hated Trans ppl more than anything
  
  I know people like that too, and I know a lot more who aren't like that. On average, 24% of the people I meet voted Trump, and I know exactly three people who wear the hats and complain about the transes. The vast majority of people who voted for him feel the same about him as Harris voters felt about her.
  
  That's the base, right there. Frothing hated of "others." There's a core of Americans that are just shit, and they've been smearing it everywhere they touch since Nixon. Or that fucking cocksucker Woodrow Wilson.

Social identity. Hardship together. This is no joke.
I just FaceTimed with a MAGA this week as they industriously cooked a weeks worth of food to freeze. This is an individual who traditionally only defrosts processed crap on baking sheets, despises leftovers, and grocery shops every 1-3 days rather than storing food.
Not this week. Now they’re all about unprocessed foods, cooking to save money, and meal planning in advance. A 180 shift from a week ago. In addition, they’re starting a pantry.
- That's the rough part a lot of Americans need to swallow: MAGA is full of disenfranchised people that would otherwise organize in solidarity for the common good of the working class.
  There's just been so many wedges and fences built up from the Cold War that the ruling class has been able to deflect and distract from progressive policy and maintain power.
  
  Try the Civil War

You're talking about babies who couldn't wear a mask during COVID. They have no sense of struggle and no toleration for hardship
- They also had their god emperor refusing to wear masks, and political leaders openly denying the disease.
  They had support for their grievences.
  They won't get that over the economy. Instead, they're getting "this is necessary" and "you'll just have to make some sacrifices for the economy".
  
  “you’ll just have to make some sacrifices for the economy”.
  Musk's new response when asked about hundreds of thousands of starving children directly tied to USAID cuts. It's a sacrifice he's willing to happily make.
  
  Their God emperor was wearing a mask and taking vaccine shots behind the scenes. He then tells them the opposite.
  I even have trouble believing the people that "converted back". I just think if things change for them and time passes they'll go back to being Republicans or MAGA.
  
  They'll just be told that Democrats, immigrants, and trans people are causing the hardship.

This is starting to sound a lot like the typical Russian mentality.
- Russia's biggest export atm.
- It's more common.

Even more so if it hurts the ones they hate even more. If they lose their job but see five children deported, they probably see it as a win.

Sounds pretty communist to me

It's the same playbook as foreign sanctions elsewhere.
The Assads, Kims, and Putins of the world can get their people to rally into a "bunker mentality" which helps prop up their regimes as a grand and noble struggle.
Trump has brought the same energy home. And history shows you can milk it for decades or generations even before something essential craxks.

To add, many Nazis were unrepentant.
- And life for most Germans turned shitty really fast, with wages dropping to depression levels with a lot more work hours.

Struggle is a key part of propaganda and cult of personality, all for the "better good". And if they already are this far, they will keep going

... until THEY lose their job to the Trumpcession.
Difference is that Trump Term 1 didn't really impose a cost on them directly. And so far, the idea of hardship sounds alright.
But when they are dumped to the curb at age 66 with social security cuts, half the 401k they thought they had, and even Walmart ain't hiring...

They need to be eaten by the leopards...
- i.e. hardship
- The resistance has arrived!

Social identity is key to survival, so it's no surprise how resistant people are.
An old mentor of mine at UCLA did a study where they put people in an fMRI machine and monitored brain function when feeling rejected during a digital game of catch. When the other two "players" (NPCs) started only tossing between each other and excluding the participant, the part of the brain responsible for physical pain triggered.
Not being rejected from others around you is so important to human survival that evolution hardwired our brain to feel pain at the slightest hint of being rejected. Other experiments found similar, we forego an awful lot to stay in good graces with our society.

Yes, but the number of Trump supporters is dwindling.
- They've been saying that since Cheeto ran for office the second time and look where we are. 🙄

This is true of USA in general though. The state is always attacking people inside and outside its "borders". But people still genuflect, sing the anthem, "defend the constitution", etc. It's not just "social identity". It's a nationalist cult.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion

We heading to the bad place. Im ok though, I realize in many ways I hit a sweet spot in history and location. Kinda like riding out the wave of progress into the dumpster.

The blame can always be shifted. Dying of diabetes because your Medicaid got cut? That’s actually the fault of that DEIgger president who broke healthcare.

But that's communism!

**EDIT: Like you all didn't just try to get us all to vote for a literally brain-dead guy who let you get poorer for four years. You may not want to admit it, but you're the same as they are.
LOL
The irony here is that this meme is equally applicable to all partisans no matter your team color.
- We're all operating on the same human operating system, yes. Would be nice if we could figure out how to sand down some of the sharp corners, though.
  
  Agreed.
- Both sides hurr durrr
- Like you all didn't just try to get us all to vote for a literally brain-dead guy who let you get poorer for four years.
  ?
  
  If you haven't had to actually look at your grocery or medical bills for the last four years, then I'm jealous of you.