Signal's CEO: Then We're Leaving Sweden | Sweden Herald
The government wants Signal and Whatsapp to be forced to store messages sent using the apps
The Swedish politicians tried adding backdoors to encrypted apps for at least 20 years :P I don't really understand why they still (ever) think it is a good idea
The problem is that politicians don't understand cyber security, whta their asking is basically the equivalent of closing the front door of a house and leaving the backdoor open. It was already proven to be a bad idea, eternalblue is a good example.
What about Threema? 🤔
I found the other Threema user! 🎉
Good point
Meanwhile, the Swedish Armed Forces recently decided to use Signal for secure communication: https://www.forsvarsmakten.se/sv/aktuellt/2025/02/forsvarsmakten-anvander-appen-signal-for-oppen-kommunikation-med-mobiltelefoner/
Half of the original article:
The Armed Forces, on the other hand, are negative and write in a letter to the government that the proposal cannot be realized "without introducing vulnerabilities and backdoors that can be exploited by third parties", reports SVT.
So that's covered.
There needs to be a messaging app which provides a backdoor for every government that requests it. Every time some dumbass legislator asks for a super-giga-secure-backdoor they promise not to misuse, they should be directed to that app.
goatse.cx used to work wonderfully for that.
Hello there, fellow Internet old-timer!
Imagine the complexity of the encryption algo with 100 different custom made backdoors!
That's the secret you give them all the same backdoor.
You just encrypt it with every key. It's wasteful, but not all that complicated.
At that point, you just don't encrypt things at all.
It’s worth noting that mullvad is based in Sweden
No wonder they pussied out and removed port forwarding
And now it starts. Programs specifically designed to be encrypted getting attacked.
"Now"? Apps like Signals are constantly under fire. Whitaker already told the whole EU it would just leave if they introduced the "chat control" legislation.
Is this law broad enough to also catch up Proton and its services?
This attack by governments on encryption is getting more and more concerning.
Proton is a company claiming to operate under Swiss law (which is doubtful,as the company itself is US based).
Sadly Swiss data privacy laws are shit and it's intelligence agencies are known for overreach, especially when it comes to cross border data traffic.
Is this law broad enough to also catch up Proton and its services?
They don't need a law, they already logged and complied on request
They want less accountability for themselves so they can get away with more corruption.
I hope people take notes.
The "if" to that "then" being that if they pass a law that would make Signal illegal in Sweden, then Signal will leave Sweden.
I'm not familiar with EU law, but wouldn't this set a precidence across the whole EU?
There is no such thing as a precedent in EU law. Any court can in general disagree with any other court. Appeals still exist, but they are only valid for that one case.
Judges don't make laws here.
Not unless turned into EU law, or a lawsuit over it reaches EU court. Individual countries can't change the rules of the union on their own.
There's already EU court precedence against mandatory backdoors
no.
I don't get how its supposed to work...they want to require messengers to include backdoors in their software? So when a program is FOSS, then you can literally just use it knowing there is no backdoor..also, what blocks you from using a server in different country? Wtf that even means...
Then politicians would simply require for "any technical measures to ensure the backdoor to be available" or something like that, meaning it would be Signals' job to ensure the backdoor works. They don't give a shit how something is done (IT is just too complex for most of them), only that it gets done somehow. For that very reason federal digital services are such a shitshow so often, they just don't understand what they even ask for so professionals always have to work around politicians' demands constantly breaking even the most basic security principles.
Its them just being idiots, like illegal activities will kedp going using old good pgp, and normies will get spied by political shit, as always..no privacy for honest people.
I'm a bit surprised that the armed forces are openly opposing this, but good for them!
I mean beyond everything else, any group actually interested in the safety and security of citizens (so, not politicians or cops anywhere apparently), should be pushing everything to be encrypted everywhere. In the modern digital world anything not properly encrypted is at risk for ate tracks by bad actors.
That is because they just decided to switch to use it for internal communications. This means that they would have to roll back that decision.
Technically only for non-classified internal communication. Classified stuff is restricted to be discussed only using military approved locked down hardware. But still, issuing a strong recommendation for Signal above all other options when communicating using regular devices is a good thing. Lots of "regular" conversations can still leak more than you expect through metadata, timing, etc, so they trust Signal to protect that
Don't know if it's a trustworthy source, but:
https://cornucopia.se/2025/02/forsvarsmakten-infor-krav-pa-signal-for-samtal-och-meddelanden/
Nice, I get to use the only thing I know how to say in Swedish (forgive the lack of diacritics): forlat, jag pratar inte svenska.
I have to ask. If Signal "leaves" Sweden because it is deemed illegal without backdoor, how would this even work regarding enforcement? Your phone gets searched and if they find Signal you get a fee? Messaging being blocked somehow by Swedish ISPs, is that even possible?
Signal will be delisted from Android/Apple store. That'll curb the majority of Signal use in Sweden. I suspect Sweden isn't going to after individuals. They could if they wanted to. ISP blocking, probably not, but yes ISPs can block Signal by blocking all known Signal servers. That's why Signal supports special proxies that allow individuals to run to allow people from blocked locations to access the Signal servers.
That’ll curb the majority of Signal use in Sweden.
...unless a bunch of users plan to actually do something illegal, in which case a delisting from the app store doesn't stop anything. Once again, it's just to enable data collection about as many ordinary citizens as possible.
The proposed law would require messaging apps to store copies of user messages.
The law isn’t targeted at users directly. It’s targeted at the service providers. If the cops can access your phone you’re already screwed.
Blocking Signal traffic might be theoretically feasible but it would be a game of whack-a-mole. Legally, Signal might have to stop serving IPs in Sweden but that’s Sweden’s problem and VPNs exist.
i am searching their link to Sweden
::: spoiler no link found yet, i will search again
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https://signal.org/
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"Signal", Signal logos, and other trademarks are trademarks or registered trademarks of Signal Technology Foundation in the United States and other countries (more info here).
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https://signal.org/donate/
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"Leaving a country" for digital services usually means not providing services there anymore.
Yeah, but why do they feel forced to? I understand the EU is imposing fines on Meta and Google because they have branches in member states. But Sweden can do to Signal as much as the US could do to The Pirate Bay.
Thanks, this makes a lot more sense.
... i keep, time and again, searching for things, only to discover my "search goal" is not based in reality.
Nice PR move, but when do you announce leaving the US, which is the much bigger issue right now?
ISP blocking, probably not, but yes ISPs can block Signal by blocking all known Signal servers. That’s why Signal supports special proxies that allow individuals to run to a
The US as of now is not threatening to kill end-to-end encryption.