Zelenskyy offers to step down in exchange for peace and Ukraine’s Nato membership
Volodymyr Zelenskyy offers to step down in exchange for peace and Ukraine’s Nato membership
Paywall bypass: http://archive.today/2025.02.23-174817/https://www.ft.com/content/19d4bef2-51db-4f9a-b9d3-f8dd56468e90
This is standard dictator behavior, giving up power for the benefit of their people.
huh?
Funny time to do it, once he's lost the war, had Ukrainians kidnapped straight onto the frontlines, and once negotiations are taking place without him (which might end with him in front of a jury). Not to mention member states have already taken it off the table which means "I'm not going at all". Might as well have said his only demand is to marry the tooth fairy.
But sure, y'all just keep fetishizing yet another western puppet who called off elections but did it "for the right reasons."
The man can get his country into NATO, I’d say he has earned his retirement.
Zelensky offers to give up something he's about to lose anyways in order to gain something that isn't going to happen.
I think he’s trying to gain not dying of sudden lead poisoning.
bro just can't wait to move to miami florida
Brave and powerful 😭
Dude just wants to snort coke and play pianos with his peen in peace.
specifically in a miami condo
Article with no aggressive paywalls
Is NATO membership still a valid goal to pursue?
Obviously not since the agreement amongst existing members has to be unanimous.
"Valid" as in feasible? No. The war was started to keep Ukraine out of NATO, and Ukraine wasn't fully backed by NATO in the war because it isn't willing to go to war with Russia just for Ukraine.
The whole war was started because the Russians consider Ukraine in nato to be their red line, and the war was lost by Ukraine because the NATO leadership never seriously considered putting Ukraine in NATO if that meant direct war with Russia.
So no, it isn't a realistic goal at all. The war ends only when either
Scenario 2 seems to be the most likely outcome.
Shit, 1. ain't looking that unlikely either, give it a few years with the amount of debt it was forced to take up.
I'm not an expert, but have read a decent amount on this. Others may have more and better info.
With that said, even if an Article 5 invocation won't bring the US into your fight, it provides a hefty infrastructure of value to countries in it. From basing, to logistics, to intelligence, to aid, it is valuable. Now the politics of it are complicated and the US can hinder some of that value, but it still means that in Europe if Russia provides an Article 5 reason, other countries in NATO can choose to help in various forms. That's not nothing. It's also faster and less arduous then negotiating individual defense treaties with neighbors and others.
So yes, overall probably still worth it. Even if just as an entree into other alliances.
it would only be valid goal if the eastern part of ukraine that borders Russia becomes a neutral or russia-controlled buffer zone, which is pretty much what is going to happen. the western part of ukraine can do whatever they want at that point basically.
it is not a valid goal as it currently stands since the entire reason russia went to war in the first place was to prevent this and well they're winning the war.
Until the Russian government gives up on imperial conquest of other nations, yes.
I'm confused by anyone who demands Ukraine should cede territory and denies they can ever join NATO. Have fun seeing Crimean/Ukrainian/etc. conflicts repeat every few years while Russia keeps learning the lesson that imperialism is back in style. Are these people literal children, or Russian bots?
Ukraine agreed to give up their nukes as part of the Budapest Memorandum which Russia shat on, and the United States showed how little their security assurances were worth. The sad reality now is Ukraine could be admitted to NATO tomorrow and it would not matter one bit, because our current president believes himself a king who cannot be forced to abide any previous treaty, law, or norm of human decency.
Right, Russia simply shat on the Budapest Memorandum unprovoked; the West and Ukraine didn’t shit on any promises and accords beforehand. And history began exactly three years.
So Ukraine wasn't building up an army to recover Crimea and fight against anti-n.a.t.o. separatism in its south-east ? Zelensky was elected as an alternative to anti-russians(, without the vote of south-eastern ukrainians under an economic blocus among other things), and did the opposite.
It's just like saying that Russia will invade the rest of Europe or other lies(, probably the russian interferences as well since Russiagate was debunked and we have a strong history of lying, Georgia was the aggressor during the Beijing olympics), we just can't tell the truth and our population is even ignoring the talking points of the opponent. The non-westerners know our point of view, never difficult to understand, we're the ones systematically ignoring theirs, and lying with biases visible even to those agreeing with us.
Netanyahu is also a liar but that's what we(sterners) do, the end justifies the means our leaders/representatives don't speak from/with their heart, there's an assumed propaganda of talking points, e.g. unprovoked for Russia or terrorists for Palestine, what are palestinians supposed to do to stop the ongoing colonization and live peacefully together ? What is Russia supposed to do if it's rejected by the west because of their desire to be independent and in favor of multipolarity, supporting the declared enemies of the "policemen of the world" ? Iran wouldn't be considered authoritarian if it was zionist.
What matters here is that there are solutions for each problem, we have a strong tendency to consider our opponents crazy/incomprehensible, without explaining/justifying in order to seek a national unity.
Now we're censoring people for their opinions even more than before, it comes from the state and not platforms, with jail time and fees, but since we're not killing people for posting unapproved opinions it could be worse. JD Vance was right to criticize the censorship wave of these last years in Europe(, and the US as well in a lesser measure), liberty is our only answer for a lack of egality 🤷(, in some forms, « poverty is slavery » though)
literal children, or Russian bots
"I'm so fucking smart, no reasonable person could possibly disagree with my flawless takes"
Speaking of "literal children": people like you who don't know the difference between "is" and "ought"
owning putin by stepping down after leading his country to a disaster, a truly masterful act.
Not good logic regardless of whether you think Zelensky is or is not a dictator. A dictator might if the terms he demanded for it were those that both parties of the conflict had already ruled out.
Making an impossible ask is hardly a sign of being reasonable or truly willing to do a thing. If I tell you I'll give you ten million dollars but only if you can settle the mess in Palestine with the the "israeli" state and the Palestinian people permanently I'm not seriously offering you ten million dollars, my ask is impossible. No one would say it's a good faith offer on my part.
Trump's team has acknowledged NATO is not viable and doesn't even want to commit US troops in the event of a ceasefire (something Russia refuses anyways), preferring it be a Europe problem and Russia categorically will not accept Ukraine in NATO. This is a FACT.
This conflict started over eastward NATO expansion, one of the primary, if not the most primary goals of Russia in their fight is to stop Ukraine from becoming part of NATO and stationing western weapons/troops there near them.
Russia is winning and the support of the US is waning. They are not going to accept having spent all that treasure and blood and taken all these sanctions and in the end not get their primary goal just to get Zelensky to step down for another person who hates Russia.
A loser petulantly asking for something he isn't going to get, in exchange for something that's going to happen any way.
He's not getting peace, ever? Or what are you insinuating?
Like Hitler won his war right?
It's not going to happen anyway, Ukraine can't join NATO while they're a Russian forces in the country, as that immediately triggers article 5 which is obviously not something NATO want to happen.