Murica

Bikes dont contribute to climate change
- Well, I understand what you mean but they do a little. Metal and rubber production are the obvious parts. Compared to a car that burns fuel it's meaningless ofcourse.

Y’all would like Ivan Illich.

because conservatives are fat
- FWIW as an avid cyclist I've been yelled at numerous times by car drivers, and it's always skinny middle-aged dudes smoking cigarettes and driving well-dented vehicles. I've always wanted to be yelled at by a fat person so I can shout "enjoy your third heart attack" at them but it's never happened.
  
  Yeah and in my area we get stories in the news about cyclists harassing people or getting into fights on the bike trails and they usually end up being some rich MAGA dude when they get arrested

Because showing up to a client meeting dripping in sweat on a 103 degree day is considered to be poor form. Because I got a new job and don’t have an extra two hours in my day to ride a bike back and forth, and moving isn’t in the cards. Because I have to carry a couple kids and all the crap the goes along with them.
- because the US sucks ass and the entire world just does what the US does is also sucking of the ass.
  It's not that I disagree with you, it's that we can do better and we're not.
- Why would a person ride their bike so fast that they end up dripping in sweat? Is there a reason for that?
  
  you don't need to move at all to be dripping with sweat on a 103 day

Bikes are awesome. I would love to experience the joy of waking up in the morning and riding a bike to work. No traffic, healthy and all that good shit. I live, however, 40min away from my work by car and 3 hours by bike, one way. I dont see this changing in the foreseeable future so my idea of freedom has to be something different.
- You can do what I do and enjoy biking around town/your neighborhood as a leisure activity. Bike to whatever stores or appointments make sense. Biking to a hair cut for example is nice because the wind as you bike helps shake the bits of escaped hair out of your clothing!
  Current I super commute while I get the money scraped together to move, and even then my job requires me to drive a personal vehicle to customer sites as needed so biking/public transit likely won't be an option until I land a better role with a company that isn't as cheap as this one
  
  You can do what I do and enjoy biking around town/your neighborhood as a leisure activity.
  What about the 50% of the population that's not suburban?
  Half my life I've lived more than 5 miles away from the closest store on roads with no shoulders or sidewalks and 50mph speed limits.
  It's great to give people advice for your situation, but less so for their situation isn't yours :)
- In Europe this would likely be 30 mins commute on a train if you work in any sizable city. And you can take your bike on the train and finish the rest of the commute on the bike.
  
  I did this but rented a bike in the city to drive to my work. The bike was only €15/month and paid by my employer.

Cop pulls you over on a bicycle:
"Drivers License and registration please"
"I don't need those, I'm not driving this bicycle, I'm travelling on it officer. Private conveyance. I don't contract with DMV."
"Right you are sir, have a nice day!"
Why haven't the sovcits cottoned on to this loophole?!
- Bc they are fat asses
- Have you physically seen the average sovcit?? No way they’re traveling on bicycles anytime soon haha
- I'm still confused how they didn't argue
  
  Why didn't the cop shoot them? Did this conversation happen in Europe?

Nothing feels more like freedom than being stuck in a traffic jam.
- I love bypassing a traffic tailback on a bicycle

Cars are the ultimate symbol of freedom because you just get in and go wherever to do whatever.
Pick nanna up? sure. Go buy her groceries? Sure. In the pouring rain? Ok. Pick up her dog from the vet? Yep. Drop by the garden store and grab 50kg of fertilizer? You bet.
You can do all of those things with out any planning or notice. You just get in and go wherever the day takes you.
I'm a bit bonkers about bikes. I have a cargo e-bike. It absolutely could do all of these things in separate trips. Doing all of them together would be a challenge but I am 100% here for that so long as nanna is. The main difference is planning. You need different gear, like a bike trailer for example. You're also probably going to pick the right time of day, like early before it gets too hot or too windy, provided that it's not raining.
- That freedom comes at quite a cost. Both to the driver and society. Riding a bike puts the "free" in freedom
  
  Taking a vacation road trip from Florida to the Grand Canyon with three kids with only bikes also comes at quite the cost. Bikes are great, but in many practical scenarios they are slow. Not all of us live in Manhattan, or a dense city, or even a well connected and safe to traverse suburb.
  Bikes cost time.

Where are you all buying bike that don't hurt your wallet to replace? I guess there are Walmart bikes but I've literally had a huffy fall apart while in motion.
- I just bought a Raleigh hybrid on Craigslist for $50 and it's now my main rider. It dates from 1999 but it was virtually unridden in all that time and required very little tuneup. As long as you don't feel the need to consume all the modern bicycle total bullshit (e.g. electronic shifters, disc brakes etc.) bikes cost about as much as a nice dinner out.
  
  To be fair, both electronic shifting and disc brakes are substantially better than their old-school counter parts. It's just that both are also wildly expensive and very difficult to do maintenance on (in my experience, at least). They're also hugely over-kill for city bikes. So I guess I mostly agree with you
- If replacing the bike is a concern (I'm assuming due to theft etc), then buy used. Not only do they cost less, they also look cheaper. It does require you to put in some work if you want to be cheap. But that's the same with a car, it won't magically change its brakes either.
  Auctions by municipalities, police and the like are a good tip if you have time and the skills to determine what is a hopeless trash pile and what is slightly rusted but good quality.
  Online listings, but it requires patience.
  Bike groups/coops/repair shops, if you have decent ones.
  
  Buying used makes a lot of sense, especially for commuting. The design of the bicycle was basically perfected in the late 1800s, anybody trying to tell you different is a fart boofing Tesla fanboy with an engineering degree and zero cycling experience.
  (Admittedly, I ride a carbon frame road bike with electronic shifting, not because I'm a shit sniffing engineer with a hard-on for Musk, but because I'm a middle-aged man with lycra for brains).
- Used bikes can be had for like 20 bucks. You even find them for free on the side of the street, but you just need bolt cutters.
  
  Not even that. You have no idea how many bikes I found abandoned on the side of the road that needed just a minor fixing (about 3 now).
  
  anything is free if you have the required equipment and skill
- Huffy
  There's your problem.

Not probably, a human riding a bicycle is the most efficient way to convert energy into movement. No other vehicle or animal can be as efficient.
- Tuna are actually insanely efficient.
- Thats why I have a bike-sled team to pull my horribly inefficient sled across the asphalt

car go further faster, and car more useful when not in big city.
- You'd be surprised how far you can travel on a bike. As long as you cycle within your ability/fitness level and eat enough you can basically cycle forever. I cycled 300km in one day last year and it wasn't even that hard. I just made sure to eat enough carbs and stick to a sustainable pace. It took some determination, but it was not difficult physically. Humans are built for endurance.
  
  You cycled for 300km for fun. You didn't cycle 240km to another city with a 10kg boardgame hanging off your back, taking your dog and gf with you, while it was -15c and snow drifts in winter. And you had to get back home by a certain time in the evening for another thing.
  I did this described trip with a train and I won't do it again without a car. Public transit is only as good as its schedule is frequent and stops are closeby.
  
  I'm aware, but car still go further faster so it's better if you aren't in a big city.
- For this, bike friendly cities have good public transport (bus/tram/metro) and bike shares
  
  Most cities aren't big enough to be bike friendly or have public transport at all, let alone good public transport (as an issue of not enough taxes to do it bc small and not enough demand for private section either).
- Yes, but have you considered this extremely selective list of positive features for bikes?

I'm disabled in a way that means I can't use one, but can use a car, which kinda sucks.
Fortunately bike infrastructure usually helps me in my chair, so I'm all in favor of wider bike adoption.
- I don’t know your limitations, but you’d be surprised at the number of ways cycling can be made accessible.
  For example, there are handbikes that attach to a wheelchair. As with all assistive tech it depends on your specific situation what is possible.
  
  I've frequently seen a couple of people with recumbent hand bikes on one of the popular trails near me. They're decently fast with the reduced air resistance, but road crossings are a bit of a hassle when you aren't tall enough to be seen by an f450
- That blows. Glad the infrastructure helps your chair get around, though. Also, every biker not using a car gives you more space, so that's an additional plus

Welcome to the Netherlands. If there's anything that fills me with pride it's our cycling culture. Most people have a car too, but I don't, and I do everything by bike and public transport.
- I cycled from Bruges to Amsterdam this summer and honestly it was an amazing holiday. Few days with headwind made us wish we had eBikes but the infrastructure was amazing. We basically could cycle on bike roads for 90%+ of the distance and felt very safe doing so. We loved especially Zealand landscape, food and small roads passing through the fields.
  I think few countries would have made the holiday so pleasuring and chill, and obviously we encountered just so many people going on with their daily life even between cities with their bikes (I am assuming 20+ km rides). I have noticed that with ebikes also elder people had complete freedom to use bikes as they wished.
  I really hope the dutch model is followed by more cities or countries.
- Denmark checking in. Not unusual for people in the city not to have a car. I’m happy with my bike that I use every workday to cycle into the city centrum in all weather - I love dressing myself up in rain boots, rain paints and rain jacket and be on my way in heavy rain or snow, feeling like I’m in an episode of Deadliest Catch
- I dream of immigrating there.

Anyone who has ridden in rain and adverse weather would know one reason cars are more popular.
- Let me introduce you to this amazing technology called raincoats. I found them perfect for rainy cycling commutes.
- Nah, I switched to cycling because of the weather. In the winter it took me longer to clear the car windows of snow and ice that the actual drive to my work. Now with a bike I'm about as fast as with my car in total. But a bike costs less than a car - by a lot! It's something like 50-80 bucks per year including a service at my local bike dealer. That wouldn't get me enough gas to keep my car running for a month.
  If weather is a concern for you then you need to research how to cloth yourself for different kind of weathers. It's perfectly fine to ride by bike in -15 °C (5 F) or strong rain with the right kind of clothes.
- Danish citizens cycle in rain with no issue.
  Of course the workplaces accomodate for that.
  You just need the whole society to revolve around bike transport, and it will become normal to ride in the rain.
  
  I'm Finnish and ride in the freezing rain (literally).
  But I can see the advantage in not having to dress up in 8 layers and driving goggles to go sweat to a supermarket for some snack you're hankering.
  Also, bigger stuff require a cart and yeah sure you have them on bikes.
  But I've been biking for everything for years, used to have a car and I just miss the convenience. Cheapest pure electric cars are getting to be around 5k here so I'm gonna get one of those at some point. I'd love if it would also fit my bike though. It's a 26" but foldable but it's not exactly small folded and with my extensions to the headset.
  
  Yeah… pretty sure Denmark doesn’t get regular thunderstorms or hail storms.
- Picking up a week's worth of shopping for a family, whilst taking your baby with you, in the pouring rain, and you live up a steep hill, and you have joint pain, and a sudden work meeting across the other side of town in an hour...
  I'd love a city designed round bicycles (Cambridge, UK is quite good like that in the centre) but man, despite the downsides cars are amazing things.
  
  My mother brought my sister and me to kindergarten and elementary school on one bike early in the morning in every weather. After school she collected us and then went to buy groceries before returning home.
  A colleague of mine rides with his son to the kindergarten, each on his own bike.
  It works. You just have to work out how to do it. Concentrate on what you can do with a bike instead of what you can't.

My city has extreme height changes on almost every road -- you'd have to be a seriously beefy rider to commute with a bike
- Ebike?
  
  At that point why not just buy an EV
  Considering how you have a cabin around you so it's a lot harder to turn into a meat crayon
- Pedal assist bikes exist, source am heavy ass bike commuter that has to go uphill to work.
- Lol same. You can't jog in my neighborhood, well some can. Even walking around is quite difficult going up some streets.

Don’t forget that maintenance is super cheap AND most people, with only the most basic tools, can do the work in their living room or even just on a sidewalk. And if I don’t get it right and the brakes don’t work perfectly I probably won’t fuckin’ die.
Hi, car owner here. I do all the work myself and it requires a fair bit of knowledge, expensive tools, space, and a childhood where I was never told I couldn’t do that work if I was thoughtful about it. That’s a high fuckin’ bar and requires a whole lot of privilege-oh there it is, too many people with privilege like to shit on those without and most of North America has dogshit for public transit or bike infrastructure and the “freedom of movement” with a car is all there but heavily artificial. Thanks auto industry and their lobbyists.
- I do my own bicycle and auto repair, and the bicycle is way easier. Maintenance is:
  clean chain every so often (500 miles or start of the season) - get a chain cleaner tool thing ($10-20) and 50/50 Simple Green ($10 will last many years) and water, and then rinse, dry, and lube ($10 lasts years) - total process, 10 min?
  replace chain - $20 or so, plus a tool for $10 or so; do every 2k miles or so
  replace brake pads - $10-20
  tires ($50 for a fancy fire) and tubes ($10) - replace tires when bald, tubes when flat (or patch them), and get some tire levers ($5-10) to make it easier
  For tools, you need a wrench set, and probably only like 2-3 sizes.
  My yearly maintenance costs for all of our bikes (1 adult, two kids) combined is about $50. If that. You could also go to your local bike shop instead for about double that.
  
  Also this is a healthy maintence regime. In my experience most cyclists do nothing on that list except swapping flat tubes and their bikes still ride just fine, if not merely sub-optimally.
  
  This was one of the things that surprised me the most about getting a bike. Parts are cheap. The work is easy. Knowing how to do it is valuable.
  
  A quick tip on bike chains; if you are using lubricant you should never use heavy degreaser on the chain. The factory oil is the best lubricant and normal lubes don't penetrate between links enough.
  However, if you are going to degrease you chains, you should use paraffin wax instead of lube. I have an 11 speed chain with 3000+ miles and it's only showing around 1% stretch. I don't even use fancy bike specific wax, just food grade gulf wax. Another plus is the whole drive train is dry; doesn't get your hands dirty if you need to remove a wheel, cassette, or derailleur.
  Admittedly waxing the chain is a pain in the ass, but some of my chains are like $70 a pop so getting as much life from them is more important.
  
  Exactly!
  
  And if you have a bike with a belt you can replace all chain-related maintenance with "check if the belt looks weird maybe once a year".
- For the newer cars, the lockout of self repair is real. You need an EEPROM reader to get the diagnostics out, and only then using firmware found on a chinese forum. Fixing a part requires you to just order a replacement, and once you take apart the car and put the part in, you then need to tell the cars electronics to accept the part as part of its diagonistics or it wont fucking start, even if its non-critical and everything else is fine.
  
  Yea that’s nearly 100% untrue, though. TPMS sensors can be a little weird but no one is changing tires themselves, only whole wheels for summer/winter.
  Brakes, sparkplugs, tierods, suspension, all oils, many sound systems and/or parts thereof, filters, batteries, and even a whole headlight assembly are all things you don’t need to tell the car about. I put a backup camera in my car and it just figured it out all on it’s own since there was technically an option for it, and I wasn’t even using an OEM camera. And the car usually doesn’t even know what’s wrong but if there IS a code you can just use an OBD2 reader, they aren’t exactly expensive and they’re super easy to use.
  You either have no idea what you’re talking about or are a mechanic that I’m glad I’m not taking my vehicle to. My 2015 BRZ that has literally none of that, not even TPMS sensors(I know 2015 is not that new anymore but people have been saying this shit for decades). This is exactly why I show people how it works, so that they can understand that it’s not that hard or complicated.
  P.S.: if it’s a German vehicle just shoot yourself, it’ll be a much less painful experience than realizing that a bunch of high-paid engineers with great reputations among the laypeople are really just the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet. Also less physically painful, too. You can still do the work, they just put everything in terrible places and use bolts that have needlessly unique and more fragile heads. Fuck you, VW, you idiots.
- Mechanical work comes pretty easy to me. I have no doubt I can fix virtually anything on my bike, short of things that require welding (we might see about that someday too...).
  But cars mechanical work? Tried it some times. Frustrating as hell, don't even want to touch it. I hate everything about cars, including the way they're built.
  
  Trick is to buy a Subaru. Everything is just nice and simple, and there’s lots of space to do everything. I’ve only owned them but I’ve helped family and friends with all kinds of other makes and it sucked.
  
  I think it heavily depends on the make. Both my families mustang and f150 were terrible to repair. But my camry by comparison is a joy. I can tear it apart almost the whole way with a 10 and 12 mm in an afternoon.
  I've done work in soft manufacturing, so i know how to use a wrench, but never worked in cars.
  I acknowledge bikes are way easier BTW, can fix almost any problem in my bike in a few hours, just think repairability should be on people's minds.

Bikes were and still are a revolutionary technology. There's a reason suffragettes were often associated with bicycles.
- Good pun.
  
  I don’t see it
- Bicycle is the wheel reinvented.
  
  Bicycle is two wheels.

Make no problem with bikes in Florida, when you arrive you are so drenched in sweat you are no longer presentable and stink to high heaven.
Biking to work if you have an office job is out of the question.
Biking to my gym or KungFu school.... Perfect.
Just need the right tool for the right job.
- In europe most modern offices have showers is this just not a thing around you?
  
  Here in Florida in the US....showers at work is not a thing. Best you can do is use a sink in the bathroom to wash your pits.
  
  offices in cities frequently do. maybe larger complexes in suburbs do, but yeah, it's not universal, and it can frequently be tied in with fees associated with a fitness center, etc.

Someone can probably do the math, but i have a hunch that humans are technically not very fuel efficient if you look at calories burned pr the total mass being moved along.
But whatever it is biking is awesome, but being technically correct is even better.
- Humans are actually unusually energy efficient for mammals when walking and even more so when cycling. Here's a little info graphic showing a breakdown.
  One thing to keep in mind if you have a dog is they're less energy efficient than humans. While dogs can run faster, a reasonably fit human can easily out distance an equally fit dog when walking or distance running.
  
  Also, I love the units. Using miles on one axis and km on the other.
  
  This is very useful. My four friends and I will have to stop swimming to work, and take the car instead.
  
  Nice graphic. But it seems like it doesn't factor in kg of mass moved. A human and a bike is a lot lighter than a car or a horse. You could also argue that the vehicle weigh should be ignored but then again you could easily argue back that weight of goods move can possibly be a lot higher with a car if you load it up to capacity. Ignore that. I did not see it said 5 riders for the car
- I feel like 'total mass being moved' is irrelevent if most of that mass is useless (car motor/metal frame/plastic/etc).
  Even if a car motor was more efficient per kg, most of the work is wasted on moving the actual car itself, regardless of the passengers & cargo.
  Bikes clearly use less energy to displace 'useful mass' than a car, so they are more efficient in that sense.
- something like 50-80 % of the energy we use (it depends on how active you are,) is used for just sustaining life (AKA your base metabolic rate.)
  humans convert a bit less than 50% of the food-energy into a form we actually use- glucose. even though bicycles themselves are fairly efficient with the power put into them, humans themselves are not all that efficient. as for most effecient animals, that would probably be something like an albatross, which extracts energy from the wind to fly. (Specifically using a technique known as ridge lift. in the R/C world, the speed record is 548mph or so- set by a glider using similar techniques, and albatrosses can cross entire oceans.)
- You couldn't be more wrong. Bicycle is the most efficient way of moving.
  If you account manufacturing energy, then in a short time it is overcome by walking.
  
  Interesting. It just feels so counterintuitive, but as I wrote, it was just a hunch and apparently many telle me now its not so. Do you have any numbers or sources to back up the claim that I can use for future fun facts sessions to annoy my family?
- Quick math shows I am quite a bit more efficient than a Nissan Juke traveling 150 miles at 19mph. About 50kcal/pound for the car and 8kcal/pound for me+bike to travel the distance.

Rain, ice and severe cold are a removed. I like bicycles, but driving to work in a heated car looking at that poor cyclist riding somewhere at 6 in the morning at -6°C, sorry, no, I'm gonna go with a car.
- are a removed.
  Bro, it might be time to leave .ml lol
  
  We are all a removed on this blessed day
- I disagree cycling in winter is nice. Just get some warm clothes and good tyres. A car is also really expensive to own in the city. Why pay for a car and parking when the alternative is almost free and arguably more fun.
  
  It was minus seventeen degrees celsius when I got up yesterday. In the time it would take me to bicycle to work on clear paths/roads - assuming no accidents - I would have frostbite on all of my face unless I was also wearing a full-face helmet.
  
  I'm less likely to sweat profusely in winter
- If it's me on the bike, know that I'm pitying you. -6°C is nothing. I drove a lot of miles as a delivery driver, and saw a lot of faces behind windshields in that time. Very few happy faces. Driving makes people miserable.
- If the weather is bad enough, I will take transit instead, but cycling down to -10 C is doable without any problems.
  I will be far less inclined to bike if it's raining, that I do hate with a passion. Of course, I could just work from home in that scenario as well, if I don't feel like taking transit
- If the cities are built for it, cycling doesn't become something where you're doing it for extended periods or distances. Neighborhoods that are setup for bikes means everything is local area, or mostly.
- Like my mom used to say: are you made of sugar?
- Was the removed word bitch (female dog) by any chance I wonder?
  
  Because lemmy.ml is run by a bunch of pearl-clutchers that think profanity is a tool of the capitalist oppressors.
  
  Why did you ask if the removed word is removed?
- Ice and snow are difficult. But I don't give a shit about the rest. It's still way more fun than sitting in traffic.

Frankly I find bikes stupid as a proposed method of transportation.
I would love to see cities designed around everything needed being in walking distance, with a supply of inexpensive rentable cars for the things that aren't, like meeting friends that live elsewhere, so we can travel between walkable locations, but at no time do bikes seem a reasonable option.
They have so many inconveniences and problems attached, and don't provide enough transportation utility to make up for it.
A car provides shelter, climate control, a comfortable and relaxing ride, and enough cargo space to transport most things we could need to transport on any sort of regular basis.
A bike meanwhile provides no shelter from the elements or outdoor temperature, an uncomfortable ride that digs into your ass, requires you to exert yourself significantly, and has between zero and very little cargo space; certainly not enough to do something like shopping for groceries.
Pushing for using bikes as primary transport is ridiculous; there's a small number of people for which that would work, but for most it doesn't and never will. For most people, things are either in walking distance, or you need a car, so it'd be a lot better to restructure our living spaces around walking.
- Have you ever seen Amsterdam? About 60% of people ride a bike daily, and it accounts for about 40% of all traffic movements in the city.
  If you replaced all of these bike journeys with cars, the yearly economic burden would be around €750,000,000 (~$785,000,000) from congestion alone. Are bikes good for all journeys, no. But it's hard to say that most cities wouldn't benefit from design that allows more short bike journeys.
  If you're willing to walk somewhere then the idea of the bike is to make that trip quicker and expand the range of the trip in the time you have. Not to replace all car journeys.
- That's a lot of words to say you've never been to Europe
- Aren't you late for your intravenous coca cola injection? Shhhh....don't exert yourself.

With the average commute to work in the US being 16 mi one way, The average speed of riding a bicycle in the city being 15 mph, that makes the average commute to work just over an hour long (over 2x the 27 minutes it takes in a car). If you work in a job that requires you to be presentable, then you need to add another 15 minutes to take a quick shower and change (if your workplace even has such facilities).
Obviously, this changes with e-bikes, but there's not really a practical difference between most modern e-bikes and an electric moped.
- That's 16 miles number seemed odd to me so I did a little bit of digging and it looks like based on the 2 minutes of reading I did that number might be heavily skewed by residents of rural communities and super-commuters. Looks like people in urban areas have a shorter distance to commute which reduces the delta between car and bicycle travel time
  This map seems to show that rural/urban devide pretty clearly and supports that, with many larger cities falling into that smallest <30 miles average daily travel category

Arrive to work soaked in sweat because it's been 100+ degrees every day for the past 8 weeks.
- You lose the benefits of it being cheap, but an ebike is a decent solution
  
  I rode one for a while in college.
  Didn't really help with the sweat problem between April and October in Texas. Or was less work than pedaling, but nothing aside from air conditioning helps with the sweat issue in Texas summer heat.
  
  Being cheap is the entire benefit. Everything else is just a plus. If you lose the cost it’s not worth it at that point.
- Well, that is largely caused by cars.
  
  Even without global warming, 100°f days or not exactly uncommon in large chunk of the US.
- Workplaces that require employees to be presentable then offer locker rooms, showers, and enough reasonable time to get ready to accommodate the fact that everyone who works a service job arrives soaked in sweat.

Green Mario's most loyal companion
- Princess peach? or are you meaning companion as "friend" rather than "paramour"?

Cuz putting on a raincoat or some warm clothes is too much for these weak ass people.
- I get the sentiment, but a raincoat isn't enough on its own. Sure, if you've got a 5 minute commute, you can get there quickly and spend minimal time in the rain.
  A 20 minute commute in the pissing rain and you will be arriving soaked from head to toe. Not ideal for most. Yeh if you can shower at work then great, but then you've still got wet clothes you need to dry.
  I'm very lucky that I have a 5 minute ride to work, all downhill, so unless the weather is biblical, I don't really have an excuse for taking the car.
  
  As someone who lives in Belgium where it is more rainy than the UK apparently, you just need 120€ of good biking gear (maybe 150 now with inflation)
  I have some cheap Columbia rain pants, some cheap rain covers for shoes, a decent marmot raincoat, and a very cheap cover for my helmet. I bike 40-45 minutes each way to work.
  I arrive to work dryer like that when it is very rainy, especially my feet, than when I have to park in a parking garage and walk 10-15 minutes. With an umbrella and raincoat.
  I mean, it definitely isn't fun at all biking in that, but unless it is really a downpour, it is not crazy.
  
  Yeah. It's impracticable for many jobs but it would be a shame to reject cycling out of hand because of potential weather issues.
  I just wear bike shorts and jersey whatever the weather. I have work pants and shirt that I change into in the restrooms at work. There's no shower. I have wet wipes and a little hand towel.
  It's pretty rare that it's raining heavily enough for long enough that I can't get to work between downpours.
  By far the most important thing is mud gards on your wheels.
  As I said, it's not for everyone but I suspect that it's not actually prohibitive for most people.
  
  I'm very lucky that I have a 5 minute ride to work, all downhill
  That ride home though.
  
  In The Nederlands people bike to school, which can be a bike ride of more than an hour away.
  A raincote is not enough, but a rainsuit will do the job.
  My issue with biking to work is the sweat …
- Well... that said, I've recently ridden by bike, and during the last few kilometers I barely could move one of my fingers, because I didn't wear any kind of gloves or coat. It was cold as shit, but I still enjoyed the ride in the end, lol.
  
  Yeah good gloves are for sure a must in the winter. The upside is that you have less bugs around when its cold :)

A bicycle gives you freedom of lightweight activities within a few miles of your home. You want to play baritone sax in the band 25 miles away? It's not happening with a bike.
- I've got a cargo e-bike that could handle a 50-mile round trip with a baritone sax just fine.
  
  Team cargo bike!
  I also have a cargo bike, the cannondale cargowagen which is a long tail format. This morning I used it to drop my 2x kids at day care and head in to the Library where I am now. Yesterday we went to the beach which was a round trip of 44km or so. It's just magnificent honestly.
  The furthest I've gone in a day with the kids is 54km. I estimate one battery would get us 70km, somewhat shy of the 50mi / ~80km round trip you mentioned. Mine does have a slot for a second battery though, which I don't have.
  I get that it's not for everyone, but for my uses a cargo bike is perfect. The pinnacle of human transport in 2025.
  
  A cargo e-bike is basically just an electric moped.
- The 25 miles is a bit much, but if your instrument/sporting gear can fit in a bag, you can carry it on a bike. There's backpacks for guitars, cellos and tubas and I regularly see kids cycling to their lessons with those. This is a fairly dense town though, so 5km max (20 minutes at child-speeds). Kids also can't drive cars, so if it's not happening by bike, it's not happening at all.
- For me? Yeah 25 miles is a bit much depending on how regular that commute is. Once a week, maybe. Once a day, like a job? 5 miles tops is my limit. But I've heard of people doing 20-25 mile work commutes before.
  
  If you are really active and can shower at work it can be fine. Bit if not it will suck.
  
  If you do it a few times and get used to it, 20 can be fine, if there is a shower at work it certainly is better.

But what if i need to commute 600 miles to work and back every day and on top of that once a year I drive a million miles to my vacation home? Checkmate!
- Sorry, a car can't take me across the ocean. From now on, all of my trips will be made by airplane as this is the only vehicle that can cover all of my needs.
  
  Quite right! It's why I commute in an a380.
- I would get another job. :D

I used to love to bike but I moved to an area with steep hills and it’s too high effort. Maybe fine for exercise but I always used them for transport and you can’t arrive at work or a music lesson drenched in sweat. Wish they would install those hill lifts some countries have. I walk now. Would love an electric but the expense makes it much more painful when it’s stolen (and every one of my regular bikes has eventually been stolen).

"Just leave it anywhere there is a secure structure" - Yes, I see this regularly when I have to maneuver around bikes carelessly "parked" in the middle of the pedestrian walkway...
- Usually that means the venue hasn't provided bike racks when they really need to. There's a convenience store near me which has no bike rack so I end up locking my bike to the firewood rack as the only reasonably secure spot to lock it
- That is annoying indeed. It is usually the result of missing infrastructure (bike racks) though, which is way less expensive and consumes way less space that equivalent car parkings. There are also always assholes, but in Tallinn for example I love the bike racks I can open with my public transport card, I can't imagine anybody leaving a bike in the middle of the street (having to tie it up) when you have a close, secure and convenient rack nearby.
  
  Well, here in the next city, there is the road, which is shared by bikes and cars, and the pedestrian walkways, which are already too small. Car parking is on the road, but this is becoming an issue as the mayoress declared a lot of roads to suddenly have bike lanes, basically removing car parking in many places.
  While I am all for bike lanes, they should be planned and built in a sensible way, not just everywhere for political reasons. Just painting a stripe on the road does not provide the protection necessary for safe biking.
  Bikes, and even worse scooters, are blocking pedestrian ways everywhere. When I walk there with my handicapped wife, it is a difficult parcour. With a zimmer frame or wheelchair you'll need someone to clear the path or you'll be stuck.

I live in rural Norway up in the mountain side. We have wind, snow, ice and rain like hell, and I have ~150 elevation to get to the main road to get anywhere.
... I'm still considering getting a bike for all the mentioned benefits.

I dare you to travel on your own bicycle in the depths of winter across the USA in the same timeframe as a car.
- Traveling across the entirety of the US by car in the middle of winter sounds fucking miserable. That's what trains are for.
  
  If you happen to enjoy that kind of thing and aren't on a tight timeline it is fun as hell. Like a mechanical version of hiking.
  Like hiking, most people don't enjoy it or aren't really up to the challenge.
  
  Trains only travel along previously laid rails, at specific times. Plus, you'll need to rent a car at the other end to get anywhere. Better to take your own car and have personalized comfort the whole way. Also, yes, it does sound miserable. But if you're in a car, turn up the heater, turn on the radio or your favorite music, and just vibe while driving safely.
- Eh, I did that for a couple years in Utah and it was largely fine. When the snow got nasty, I took the bus.
  That was back when my commute was 10 miles (16km) with a segregated bike path the whole way. My new commute is more than double that, so I drive. But if we weren't so car centric, things would be more compact and I wouldn't have this nasty commute.
  
  we weren’t so car centric, things would be more compact and I wouldn’t have this nasty commute.
  Hi, a different commenter here. I love public transportation (time to sit and read! meet interesting people!) and dislike cars, but realistically we often have other considerations that city design alone wouldn't solve.
  My most recent commute was 65 miles through a rural area -- I had to live in town A to support a family member and my job was in town B.
  Before that I was in an urban area, but had to live near the hospital area for my BFF's sake, and my job was out in the suburbs 18 miles away. No bike lanes, and public transportation took 2-3 hours one way. (and this was in a city with relatively good public transportation.)
  Now I WFH so that's cool. But the experience made me realize how complex is the problem of transportation and urban design. I mean, I agree with the fact that bikes are awesome and we need better public transportation in the US, though.
  
  Failed the brief on at least two counts. First, you took a bus when it got "nasty" - thus proving automobiles are more adaptable, and thus superior. Second, a 10 mile commute is not across the USA - granted the terrain in Utah is varied, but not coast-to-coast varied. You also didn't put up your times vs. average car travel time for the route, so I'm going to assume that your average speed was lower, and your average time was also longer.
- But demonstrate the incontrovertible need for a car during one's regular commute through an average modern city. And I'm even offering the main exception - busses and taxis/ride sharing/whatever the current nomenclature, as I consider public transportation to be its own independent thing, unrelated to Cars.
  I think the people who would enjoy such a venture via bike have or are already doing it, the rest of us would just like to be able to ride the bike through the city without having to play Frogger with three lanes filled with enraged lumps of cortisol *wrapped in two tons of steel and various other such substances.
  Edit: added * to further drive home the viscerality of my desire.
  
  I live in a city of 60,000 people in Colorado. The closest train station is 15 minutes away, by car. There is a bus that will take me to the train station, but it's an hour to walk to the closest one and the bus comes once an hour, 6 am to 7 pm, M-F. I can't afford to spend 4 hours on a quick trip to the grocery store and never leave my house on the weekends.
  There are bike lanes on the main roads (4-6 lanes 50+ mph traffic). More than half the vehicles around here are massive jacked up trucks and SUVs. I have a bike, but do not have a death wish. It regularly snows, making bike riding a no-go for most of 4 months of the year.
  I am very much in favor of reducing car traffic. But it's not feasible for so many people with the way cities are designed and the lack of public transport.
- The reason you can't is much more about infrastructure than weather, especially within cities
  Source: I live in Scandinavia and everyone bikes even when it's cold
  
  Just out of curiosity, do you have snow tires for bikes or are the paths cleared well enough not to worry about it?
  Where I live we often get mixes of sleet and ice along with the snow and since it is sporadic throughout winter we do a pretty mediocre job of funding the removal. If we didn't have so many wide roads it probably wouldn't take as much effort.
  
  Even in the US, there are places that are bike friendly in the winter. Minnesota has a big winter biking culture, both for commuting and for recreation.
- That’s impossible and no one is implying that bikes should replace other modes of transport for interstate travel. However, I bike commute in winter in Wisconsin and it takes less time than riding the bus. Driving a car is faster than my bike commute, but only marginally so.
  
  Then bikes are not more freeing than cars. The means of easy, unscheduled, interstate mobility should be the American symbol of freedom. That's not a bicycle.
- Checkmate liberals-tier comment. Why did you even post this?
  
  Initially, for shits and giggles. I can't ride a bike and I also can't drive, so I'm stuck on foot.
- I dare you to cross the Atlantic in a car.
  
  You might need to rendezvous with another vessel mid-trip for gas, but amphibious cars do exist.
- One thing people don't seem to grasp in many different situations is the vastness of the US. Most states are bigger than a lot of countries. You can fit several European countries into some of the biggest US states.
  
  True, but when I lived in the US the majority of my trips weren't cross-state, but 1-10 miles which can totally be cycled if the infrastructure was there.

Because there's no Microcenter in my city.

Because it's harder to kill someone by hitting them with it.
But in all seriousness, you can go a lot farther, a lot faster, across much worse terrain and weather in a car than a bike.
- How often does the average person really need to do that? Multimodal is where it's at! Drive when you need to, don't when there are alternatives. But alternatives need to exist for that to work, so vote for them.

The one downside is that a lot of people I know have had some nasty accidents and broke a bone or something. Sure, in cars you are also at the risk of kissing a tree at highway speed, but bike accidents feel a lot more common and have a lot less protective metal involved
- I've known a few people killed in car accidents. I know lots of people who have had bike accidents, but none of them died, and the only ones with serious injuries were when they got hit by a car.
- I've wiped out a bunch of times on my motorcycle, never broke anything. I wiped out on my bike, broken arm.
  The solution is clear: mandate motorcycle jackets and helmets for bicyclists.

They might be inexpensive where you live. I've paid more than half of my paycheck for my bicycle, and it's one of cheaper ones.
- Gift a man a bike, and he will ride for a year. Gift him bolt cutters, and he will ride forever.
  Jokes aside, where are you? Here, good new bikes are ridiculously expensive, but if you know where to look and what to look for, used ones are cheap. You don't even have to deal with a shady dude in a back alley, a lot of municipalities etc. auction off bikes they confiscate, which are often a few hours of work away from being pretty okay
  
  I am from Poland. The bike cost me about ~$500 with accessories. I know that I could get a used bike, but I would rather have a new one since it is my first one for a long time and I don't really know much about bikes in the first place (at least for now).
  Also keep in mind that I had a minimal wage in my last job, and the average salary is like 2x more.

hills
- shifters
- weeee!!
  
  I am speed
- That makes it more fun
- Climbing good, builds muscle
- Free cardio, what's not to love? E-bikes are an option for those that don't love it
- mechanical advantage
  
  Yeah but uphill tho :/
- huh? i mean ig but why not just walk your bike? its not any different than walking besides having your hands on the bars instead of ur pockets or whatever lol, and it gives you an opportunity to change positions and stretch your legs
  
  Yeah that's what I end up doing sometimes on the long hills haha, it kinda sucks living in a really hilly city

because the entire transport infrastructure is geared towards making cars the safest, quickest and most convenient way of getting places. its by design, absolutely on purpose.
i own a pedal bike and enjoy riding, but i can get places nowhere near the speed and safety. i almost always need at least a bus ticket to get halfway there, which forces me to rent the damn bikes wherever i go if i want to use them. a basic city motorcycle or scooter is fucking cheaper and quicker than mass transit where i live, without the disadvantages. this is probably why they seem to be so popular rn.
it feels like you have to go out of your way for any alternative and its still worse. maybe its time to rethink it but wtf do i know. you can blame the car industry or capitalism for that.
- in north america - go to NL and it's the opposite - it's a political decision.
  
  for reference, i'm on south america.
  sadly, the NL is one of the exceptions, not the rule in the world.

Because they made a lot of mmmmoneyyyy for their producers.

Because people with disabilities and chronic illness exist, and because depending on the distance it’s not possible to go by bike and depending on the terrain it’s also no possible. Oh and the weather I forgot the weather… oh and in some roads, like highways, for example, these can’t even drive there:..
- These are great arguments for one not to cycle for routine trips of daily life.
  Good cyclist advocates don't shame one for not cycling for everything. They know why people don't do it. It's because they feel like they're gonna die! And they're not totally wrong in feeling that way.
  Good bike advocates lobby for better infrastructure to mitigate these concerns.
  E.g. winter weather in particular is addressed just by keeping bike routes paved the same as car lanes. Places that do this see negligible drops in cycling rates even at below freezing temps.
  GOOD bike infrastructure is always worth it. It always reduces car trips. Every mile one bikes or walks instead of drives is taxpayer money saved.
  Car infrastructure is very limiting to people with disabilities, more so than cycling.
- Bikes aren't the perfect transportation method for everyone all the time but they are a good option for most people most of the time. Also, I have a chronic illness and I ride year round in a place that regularly hits -40
- Some people with disabilities can't drive. Young and old people can't drive. If anything bikes are more accessible.
  
  Epileptic here: my e-bike is a godsend. That, and my city having at least decent bus infrastructure. With those two combined, even while I'm working on getting my license back, I don't think I ever want to own a car again.

$20 gas gets me much, much, much further than $20 in eating high carb prepared food when riding my bike between point A and B. Not fuel efficient, in fact, energy expensive, but it is over all cheaper than a car if you can handle the potential physical abuse of riding a quarter mile up hill to your house. I did this last year while my car was in the shop, I learned I lived at the top of a hill, in the middle of a valley. Lost around 14lbs in a week just running errands, and I was carb loading like crazy. Carbs, meat, sugars, and tons of water. Riding a bike is all laughs and giggles until you're doing it to get meat and milk to fuel your required errands and despite eating everything in sight you're still losing weight at a shocking pace... They had my car a month, I was able to hold out on most errands until around just before the final week, went from 179, to 165. Kept eating as I felt I needed and was back up to 175 in about a week after getting my car back, and with recent exercise and pushing myself I dropped to 169 while increasing my max weight, it's really only surprising when you find I was 280ish lbs just 6 yrs ago... I digress, bikes are tough on the body.
- $20 gas gets me much, much, much further than $20 in eating high carb prepared food when riding my bike between point A and B.
  Let's see. Assuming:
  Gasoline costs $3/gallon
  A car gets 30 miles per gallon
  That works out to where $20 buys 6.7 gallons or 200 miles.
  Assuming cycling burns 50 calories per mile, you're looking at 10,000 calories of excess energy usage to travel 200 miles.
  At 1700 calories per pound for dry pasta or dry rice, that's about 5.8 lbs of pasta or rice, probably less than $10 in most places.
  Or course, people eat other things, and will likely increase their consumption of everything in a ratio proportional to their increased caloric needs, not just adding carbs to some kind of baseline amount of food for their BMR, so I wouldn't expect it to be that cheap in real life. But there's a little bit of wiggle room to work with for anyone cooking their meals at home.
- This doesn't match my experience. I eat more when I ride, but not enough to make it a concern.

My only issue is the grocery store is a half an hour drive away by car because we live rural. We shop once a month for staples and stock a lot of things in bulk to avoid making multiple trips. Not everyone does or should live in a city. If there was a service like a train or a bus even we would use it but it isn't an option.

Unregulated? I got ticket for an unregistered bicycle in 2011.
https://hbl.org/resources/how-to-register-your-bicycle/

Enables people with mobility issues
Allows people to move about farther than just a few miles or so
Allows people to transport a lot of goods (and/or heavy goods) easily
Doesn't make you exhausted if you have to go up hills
AIR CONDITIONING/HEATER
Fuck your walkable/bike nightmare "utopia".
- Lots of disabled people can't drive, bike infrastructure also accommodates wheelchairs, mobility scooters, hand bikes and other ways disabled people get around.
  50% of journeys are 5 miles or less, nobody is seriously suggesting going long distances on bikes (though I have)
  You can easily carry a full load of shopping, bits from the diy shop and more, there are even tradespeople who work via a cargo bike rather than van
  By cycling you get fitter very quick, you learn to pace yourself but you get faster as you get fitter. E-bikes are also an option too
  Can't fix the air con issue, when I cycled to work I took a change of clothes and got changed there I don't live in a very hot place though. As for cold, a good set of waterproof mittens, some waterproof overtrousers and a good coat work wonders (and can be used when your not on a bike too)
  What about those who can't drive, how do they get around?
  
  Can’t fix the air con issue
  When I started cycling last year I found that I acclimated myself to the hot weather by riding daily (plus once you start moving even if it's super hot and sticky the airflow as you ride along at 5-10mph really makes it feel far more bearable than one would think, even at 100% humidity!)
  I can only imagine how much more bearable it would be on an ebike where I wouldn't have to fight so hard on hills or starting from stopped
- The more people on bikes, the better it is for drivers as there's less car traffic. People get stuck in traffic jams in their car for hours, yet if they get stuck behind a bike for 10 seconds they lose their shit
  
  Traffic jams are a function of the mistake of centralizing people into large cities plus poor road planning. Bikes are just "let's ride slowly on a road meant for much faster vehicles", i.e. brain damage.
- I agree with your points, trains are fucking awesome too.
- My ebike has enabled me to take 40 mile round trips, saves me on hills (though honestly once you're fit it's not a big deal anyway), helps me carry lots of goods, and since I'm usually going fast the wind cools me down (though a little spray bottle helps keep me cool when it's really hot). I'm usually warm enough from enough from physical exertion that I don't really need a heater (unless it's so blisteringly cold that the fog of my breath turns to ice in my balaclava, but that's way below freezing.)
  The only thing that really stops me is ice. Any other weather I can handle, but when there's ice my bike goes inside.
  
  Oh bullshit. I couldn't ride an ebike if my fucking life depended on it.
  I don't know what you anti-car fuckwits think "disabled" is, but it's not what you think.

Cool let me just bike 30 miles to my job and back everyday sounds good
- if entire cities were designed around these the way they are with cars, everyone would be fine with it
- You'd be surprised how much easier that is with a battery and electric motor.
- Who the fuck takes a job that far from home?
  
  Maybe you do what you can to survive, fuckwit. Have you thought of that?
- Also make sure you get groceries as well, I'm sure a weeks worth you'll be good to carry back.
  
  Why would you need to buy a weeks worth of groceries? Just buy for 1 or 2 days. Make additional grocery trips as needed.

Cold, rain etc... And moving heavy things (like heavy groceries)

Inb4 they just remove regulations so it becomes the vehicle of freedom

Try this when you are in your 70's and come back and we'll chat. And bring a cure for my chronically poor balance on your way over.
- Many 70+ yr olds cannot or should not be driving cars either, because of eyesight/reflexes. Bicycles on the other hand, especially if conditioned throughout life, and later Trikes/Handbikes/Recumbents can be great options for many elders, and cycle infrastructure is perfectly usable for mobility scooters etc for those who really can't or do not want to bike.
  
  If the 70 year old has problems with keeping balance there are trikes too. And if the knees hurt get an e-bike or e-trike. 👍
- Try this when you are in your 70's and come back and we'll chat.
  70+ year olds cycle all the time here in the Netherlands. My parents included. Most use e-bikes nowadays. I suspect more elderly cycle than drive a car, driving requires much faster reflexes and the potential for accidents is much higher.
  And bring a cure for my chronically poor balance on your way over.
  Here you go. Again super common among the elderly over here.
  
  I have considered an e-bike. I believe I might be safe on one in some situations, but not as a daily driver. As mentioned, my balance is very poor. I can manage a stand up scooter for short distances. But the penalty for a fall at my age is far too high, and so anything on two wheels is really not going to be acceptable. Thanks for the thoughts though.
- well that goes back to one of Anon's last points: that if cities were designed around it, everyone would be fine with it. because in a city designed around cycling, there would be room for passenger cyclists just as there are passenger cars.
  when you think about it, this rebuttle essentially comes down to the plain ole fact that humans have differences of ability. there's nothing inherent to car-based society that offers disability support that we couldn't provide with a cycling-based society.

Try riding a bicycle 105 kilometers to your parent's house and see how that feels
- the thing is, this thread has everyone looking at things as sort of a cycling-only society. in actuality, any improvements to human transportation on a societal level would have to encompass a variety of transportation options. the current system in NA emphasizes cars above all else. if they were to transition away from car dominance, it would look like expansion of cycling, busses, and trains at minimum. they all would be expected to run in harmony with one another, meeting the various transportation needs such as distance, accessibility, etc.
  and even in that society! bikes would definitely symbolize freedom. if your legs take you there, you can go.
- Ride Bike 5-10k to train station, take train for an hour or two with bike, ride Bike 5-10k to my parents house. I do it once or twice a month.
- Take your bike on the train. That's what I did last time I had somewhere to be that was >100 km away, and it was a fantastic trip
- In nice weather? Pretty good, as long as you are staying the night..... And don't mind being tired..... And don't need to bring much with you.... And can wash your clothes there before you cycle back.

Bikes are only cheap if you rarely use them, or are just starting out. Spend enough time on them and you will start looking at all the gear, components, and upgrades that can improve your quality of life. There is definitely a point where insurance becomes necessary, but luckily even bike insurance is much less expensive than auto insurance.
- Commuters ride cheap bikes. The most expensive stuff is usually your clothes, they are like Star Trek tech today.

ITT: people who don’t understand how geography works.
Sorry let me be more specific.
ITT: people who don’t understand how distance works.
- Just build low angle switchbacks, bro. We already do this for our automotive infrastructure. If you've got a really high elevation, you can consider implementing one of the most efficient modes of mass transit in existence - the elevator.
- Bicyclists live for hills. 😈

I know a couple of people my age (about 40) who really prefer not to drive, but it's such a strange preference IRL that I suspect most people online who claim that it's what they prefer have just never experienced how much better it is to have a car and live somewhere where driving is convenient.
I know that sounds patronizing but I was a bikes/mass transit supporter myself when I was younger and it was 100% because I hadn't learned how to drive and I didn't know what I was missing.
- That's fun. I was a driver kid and didn't know what I was missing till I moved to a place with good bike/public transport infrastructure.
  I suspect people who claim that they prefer to have a car never experienced how much better life quality is in a place without cars where cycling is convenient.
  (The noise pollution alone is worth it!)
  
  There's no accounting for taste, as the saying goes, but where have you been that is quiet but not car-reliant? The lower population density that is made possible by driving reduces noise much more than cars increase it.
- I wouldn't assume everyone who disagrees with you is naive just because you were naive in your past agreement with them. Really, going to bike friendly places with lots of busses, trains, sidewalks, paths, etc... it's just very nice. Yes there are conveniences to cars, but the biggest convenience a car can ever offer is freedom from the inconveniences of not having a car in a car-based society.
- I drove cars for years until I was fed up that I need more time to clear the windows of ice in the winter than the actual drive. That's when I switched first to a moped, then to an e-scooter (the small one which you stand on) and then to an e-bike.
  It's such a difference to be out in the open. It's fun.
  I'll never go back owning a car. They cost a lot more than my bike and I always feel stressed using them (driving = maintaining focus all the time, that is stress).
  I now don't need to go to a gym anymore. Cycling is enough to keep me fit.

Unfortunately if you live in a city it will get stolen at least once a week and that gets pretty costly pretty quick

inexpensive
lol, most bikes nowadays cost $1000. Also stolen every time so you have to call Uber. Also can't get groceries or take the highway.
less likely to kill
More likely to be killed.
- You had me curious so I just went on Facebook marketplace and searched "bike"
  The first screen of results was all bikes under £100
  You realise you don't need to buy a carbon fiber Tour de France bike to get around a town, right?
  
  Sure, but you should get something better than a big box bike so it doesn't suck to ride. Get what you can afford, but you'll be so much happier with something $500+ from a decent brand than Walmart crap.
  $1000 is actually pretty inexpensive for a quality bike. Carbon fiber tends to start around $3-4k, and is totally not worth it IMO, just get a quality aluminum or steel bike and spend $500-1500 on it.
- Also can't get groceries
  Americans unironically believe this. Pathetic
  
  There are a few grocery stores in a 30 minute range. But none we could continue to afford long term.
  The two which we can afford are an hour away. Including gass costs they are much cheaper long term.
  Why i chose to live here? It was the only place we could realistically afford.
  I am neither considered poor nor do i own/drive a car. (My partner already did before they met me) for perspective. We also have full jobs and kids. So very little time for small trips.
  I blame urban planning and townhall. There is a small discounter who has made repeated requests to expand near our area with repeated refusals because “we already have to many (wealthy class) grocery stores.“
  
  Its difficult to buy a week's worth of groceries on a bike, which is often the norm in the US partly because of the car-centric nature. It's a trip or ordeal to get groceries.
- I used to get all of my groceries by bike I did this by adding 2 baskets to the sides of the rear rack and one to the front and wearing a backpack if I am getting a lot of stuff larger items can be attached to the rack with bungee cords
  You might be surprised by how much you can Carry by bike and this wasn't even a cargo bike either
- lol, do you think $1000 is expensive compared to a $30k car? I ride daily and have never had to “call uber” because my bike got stolen. I get groceries on my bike every week. Why would you want to take the highway on a bike? You know what’s most likely to kill? Heart disease from sitting on your fat lazy ass
- I mean you could attach trailer on bike drive that way, it would be slower but works
  Why would you go to highway when off-road is much better
  
  Or baskets to carry a reasonable amount of groceries.
- You can ride your bike on many highways in the USA at least. Generally you cannot on the freeway, but there are some exceptions --- in California there are requirements about bike accessibility which means that certain segments of a freeway may be bike accessible.
  If you live far from a store then groceries are a problem unless you use a trailer, but if you live in a city it's totally reasonable to use a bike (or walk) for your weekly groceries.
  And you can get a new Trek FX for under $600, and that's just from a quick search. Yes of you want Ultegra or better and a carbon frame, the sky is the limit.
- The average American spends $10k YEARLY on car. You could buy a new bike every month and still end up paying less.
- To add insult to injury on the topic of how misinformed Americans are:
  More likely to be killed.
  Cycle commuting is associated with a 47% decrease in all-cause mortality (source)
  What's more likely to kill you is sitting at the wheel all day in a car.
- Most bikes now cost about $100 brand new at the store unless you're buying some specialty shit. Less likely to kill is if both people are on bikes, should have been obvious.
  
  $100 means you're buying Walmart crap. Don't do that, they are super poor quality, which means they're as likely to break as get you to your destination.
  Buy from a quality brand and spend $500-1000 or so. You'll be much happier and it'll last longer.