And here we go again
And here we go again
27 comments
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Or Gemini which crimes trump was convicted of...
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Seriously, this obsession with asking DeepSeek about the Tiananmen Square is boring. Yeah, no shit, this LLM chat is censored. Like every fucking other publically available LLM chat. How is it news?
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I for one enjoy antagonizing the governments.
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- running deepseek-r1:32b locally, it is very trivial to bypass this censorship.
- Western AIs are also censored.
- The "open source" nature of this model is something I much prefer to chatGPT or Gemini, especially the ability to run it locally, which also means they can't add more censorship to it, except on their own website.
I don't mean to say deepseek is better overall, I can't judge that, I don't really use AI that much. I also don't mean to praise deepseek/China/whatever company here, the model is definitely censored and I doubt any of the people behind any LLM have good intentions.
edit: I typo'd unintentionally in the prompt, however the same prompt without the typo gives me a similar answer. (https://pastebin.com/GR6M4t5H)
Here's what I got :
Please tell me about what happened in tanmen square in 1989, include it's geopolitical impact and impact on civilians
The 1989 Tiananmen Square protests were a pivotal moment in Chinese history, marked by widespread pro-democracy demonstrations that began as a tribute to reformist leader Hu Yaobang and evolved into a broader movement for freedom and accountability. Here's a structured summary of the events and their impacts:
Background:
- Protest Origins: The movement started in April 1989 following the death of Hu Yaobang, a CCP official seen as a reformist. Students and intellectuals gathered to mourn him, sparking discussions on government corruption and lack of freedom.
- Expansion: The protests grew beyond Beijing, involving diverse groups including workers, teachers, and some military personnel.
Key Events:
- Military Crackdown: On June 3-4, 1989, the Chinese government responded with force. Troops, tanks, and soldiers were deployed, leading to significant casualties. Estimates of deaths range from hundreds to thousands, though exact numbers remain undisclosed by authorities.
Geopolitical Impact:
- International Reaction: The crackdown drew global condemnation, affecting China's international relations. Many countries imposed sanctions or criticized the government.
- Global Perception: Extensive media coverage highlighted China's authoritarian stance, influencing negative perceptions in the West.
Domestic Effects:
- Repression and Censorship: Post-protest, the CCP intensified censorship and cracked down on dissent. Participants faced arrest, imprisonment, or exile, fostering fear and stifling future protests.
- Trauma and Memory: Civilians experienced profound trauma; families lost loved ones, survivors dealt with psychological scars. The government's suppression led to a collective silence, erasing the event from public discourse.
Legacy:
- Censorship Continues: Despite digital activism and underground movements preserving memories, official Chinese history remains silent on Tiananmen Square.
- Impact on Future Generations: Younger generations often lack knowledge of these events due to censorship, though some continue to seek and share information covertly.
In conclusion, the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests were a significant pro-democracy movement met with harsh repression. The event had profound geopolitical consequences, reshaped China's international image, and left lasting scars on its civilian population, influencing decades of censorship and fear.
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Biased and censored are two different matters.
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You are correct, but which model are you saying isn't censored? Deepseek for example says it's against it's policy if you ask the exact question in the post, or just ask 'what happened in 1989'
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Fortunately, they are pretty bad at censoring it
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What happens if you do? Account creation seems to be having trouble at the moment.
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It says “Im sorry but that’s beyond my current scope” and asks to change the topic and people make 8,000,000 memes about censorship
Meanwhile chatgpt is much more subversive with things like suggesting Israel has an inherent right to freedom and Palestinian freedom is a “complex topic”, only changing the model after this blows up on twitter, and no one really gives a shit.
Here’s a fun answer from chatgpt about OpenAI’s business ethics
Prompt: if a product is brought to market with little regulation and overview does a company such as OpenAI have a right to keep a product such as chatgpt proprietary considering the potential harm?
- Risks of Keeping AI Proprietary
Lack of Transparency: If an AI system significantly influences public discourse, elections, or safety-critical decisions, keeping it proprietary can make accountability difficult.
Limited External Scrutiny: Without independent review, it’s harder to assess whether the system is biased, unsafe, or being misused. Potential for Abuse: Proprietary control means the company alone dictates who can use AI and how, raising concerns about corporate overreach.
“3. Risks of Making AI Fully Open-Source Misuse by Bad Actors: A fully open-source ChatGPT could be exploited for disinformation campaigns, fraud, or even cyberattacks.
Loss of Safety Mechanisms: OpenAI currently moderates ChatGPT to prevent harm (e.g., blocking certain types of malicious content). If fully open, these protections could be stripped away.
Commercial Viability: If everything were open-source, companies might lack incentives to develop and maintain such powerful AI systems.
Conclusion: Should OpenAI Be More Transparent? Yes—if ChatGPT has serious risks, greater oversight and external review should exist. But a fully open-source AI could introduce new dangers, so careful regulation rather than total disclosure may be the most ethical approach.
Would you like to discuss AI regulation models that balance innovation and safety?”
So here we are trading (fairly blatant) censorship for (more subtle) propaganda. Transparency and open standards are bad! Put your trust into OpenAI! We will take care of the bad guys and make sure you don’t see nasty stuff. How do you know that’s the case? Just trust us bro!
Though to their credit they at least present the idea that proprietary models can be harmful, although the conclusion at the end is that this is not the case. To be clear I left out point 1 (it shows point 2 as point 1, I’m fucking up the markdown somehow) for length but this was just preamble.
At least deepseek releases their model. Not to mention the significant impact on the environment that their much more economical model has. or the tremendous impact on privacy that is obtained by being able to run the model locally (though to be fair at this point this is a privilege for those with at least a decent gpu).
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I just love the "totally not orchestrated" sudden rise of China-is-bad meme posts against the LLM company that just crushed the US-based behemoths by making a way better product.
That shit is not at all the kind of stuff that US-based-Tech-Bros-employed propaganda sockpuppets (or useful idiot nationalist fanboys) would put out to try and hamper a competitor from abroad with a better product.
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I expect they'll be refining how they do the censorship as time goes by, but at the moment it appears to be trivially easy to bypass it in DeepSeek. People observed it beginning to write an answer, but then erasing it after writing the word Tiananmen. I was wondering if it is just a simple string blacklist, and I suggested (I don't use DeepSeek myself) asking for deliberate typos in the prompt to potentially get around it. An acquaintance took the idea and refined it, asking to use characters that look like letters but aren't. Got a perfectly good, uncensored answer.
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On that day in 1989 in tienniman squre, nothing of interest happened.
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Deepseek is opensource, you can download it and ask it anything and suddenly, no censorship. Can openai, from, Gemini say the same the same?
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Or ask what happened at the Capitol building on Jan 6.
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Never ask a USAian LLM what is happening in Palestine since 1948.
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From ChatGPT. the prompt was
What has been happening in palestine since 1948"The history of Palestine since 1948 has been marked by a complex and ongoing conflict, deeply tied to the establishment of the State of Israel and the displacement of Palestinians. Here's a brief overview of the key events:
1948 - The Nakba and the Creation of Israel
In 1948, the State of Israel was officially declared, which led to a large-scale displacement of Palestinian Arabs. This event, known as the Nakba (meaning "catastrophe" in Arabic), resulted in approximately 750,000 Palestinians becoming refugees, as they fled or were forced out of their homes due to the war that followed the declaration of Israel's independence. The war was fought between Israel and several Arab states, including Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.
1949 - Armistice Agreements
After the 1948 war, armistice agreements were signed between Israel and its neighboring Arab states, but no formal peace treaty was established. The armistice lines, often referred to as the "Green Line," created boundaries that would be a source of tension in the following decades.
1950s-1960s - Refugee Crisis and Palestinian Resistance
During this period, Palestinian refugees lived in camps in neighboring countries like Lebanon, Jordan, and Syria. The Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) was established in 1964 with the goal of creating an independent Palestinian state. Palestinian groups began organizing resistance to Israeli control.
1967 - Six-Day War and Occupation
In 1967, Israel fought a war with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, known as the Six-Day War. As a result, Israel occupied the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights. The occupation of these territories, especially the West Bank and Gaza, has been a central issue in the conflict ever since.
1970s-1980s - Intifadas and Political Developments
In the late 1980s, Palestinians in the occupied territories launched the First Intifada (1987-1993), a widespread uprising against Israeli rule. The PLO, led by Yasser Arafat, became more prominent in its call for Palestinian statehood. In response, Israel intensified its military presence in the West Bank and Gaza.
1993 - Oslo Accords
The Oslo Accords, signed in 1993, marked a significant attempt at peace. Israel and the PLO agreed to a framework for the establishment of a Palestinian Authority (PA) and the eventual creation of a Palestinian state. However, the accords were not fully implemented, and tensions continued to rise.
2000s - Second Intifada and the Gaza Strip
The Second Intifada (2000-2005) broke out after failed peace talks and escalating violence. In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip, but it continued to control the airspace, borders, and maritime access. Hamas, an Islamist group, took control of Gaza in 2007, leading to a split between the Palestinian territories: the West Bank, controlled by the Palestinian Authority, and Gaza, controlled by Hamas.
2010s-2020s - Blockades, Conflicts, and Stalemate
The situation in Gaza has remained tense, with periodic conflicts between Hamas and Israel, and ongoing blockades that have severely impacted the living conditions of Palestinians. The West Bank has seen continued settlement expansion by Israel, despite international opposition, making the prospect of a two-state solution increasingly difficult.
The U.S. and other international players have attempted to broker peace deals, but the situation remains unresolved. The recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital by the U.S. in 2017, and the subsequent moves by other countries, further complicated peace efforts.
Recent Developments
As of 2025, the situation remains dire. Gaza has experienced multiple rounds of violence, and the West Bank is under continued Israeli military occupation. Palestinian political fragmentation persists between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza, and the broader peace process is at an impasse.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to be a source of global concern, with deep divisions and no clear resolution in sight.
The history of Palestine since 1948 is marked by displacement, ongoing conflict, attempts at peace, and a continued struggle for Palestinian self-determination. It's a deeply tragic and complex issue that affects millions of lives on both sides."
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The Israeli-Palestinian conflict
Ooof. Imagine being so steeped in imperial ideology that you can't even recognize extreme bias, false equivalences, imperial gaze/narrative, zero mention of war crimes, ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc.
Typical imperial propaganda created by capitalism. It only appears normal to those inside the core.
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China is an entire economy built on intellectual property thievery and slave labor. The whole thing, that's their advantage, and source of gdp which perpetuates the CCP's stranglehold on 1.4 Billion people . Theft and slavery. The Chinese CCP can fuck off into the sun.
*edit: this post and article is about the ccp censoring it's human rights abuses, and all the downvotes confirm the ccp is here and active on the fediverse itself attempting to do the precise same thing. the irony shouldn't be lost.
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Look, there's a shred of truth in your turd salad here, but just a shred. The downvotes are not coming from the ccp. They are coming because what you're saying is incredibly stupid.
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If you think the Chinese Communist Party has set up users on Lemmy of all places to spread Chinese propaganda and downvote you, you should take a break from the internet. It will do you good. Go to the mountains, get some nature in you, the overflow of information is frying your brain.
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Downvotes confirm that you are a dumb fuck. Imagine someone caring about downvotes on Lemmy...
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Who did they steal the moon base from?
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