These dames wanting inclusivity

the feminine species
- Does this mean two females are able to produce sexually viable offspring?
  
  Idk what they're called, but IIRC that there are some all-female lizards that can reproduce either by parthenogenesis or lesbianism.
  
  Well…

No, they want to be called LA class nuclear powered attack submarine.
We're in shit posting after all.
Happy Xmas, ya filthy animal!
- Always liked the strong silent type
  
  You talking about females or farts?
- Is that a US specific term? Do British women get called Astute class nuclear attack subs?
  
  Naw they’re called burds there.
- And a happy new year!

That's a huge word ~~salat~~ salad just to say "I'm an incel"
- salat
  Found the Ger(wo)man.
- Is female derogatory? I thought it was just a more scientific classification.
  Edit: I work at a large engineering and manufacturing company where some of our products need to take into consideration the difference between male and female anatomy. I just hear “male” and “female” systems discussed on a weekly basis so I think I might sometimes refer to men and women as “male” and “female” outside of work without giving it a second thought.
  
  Using scientific terminology in colloquial speech is weird and creepy in most contexts. Calling kids "juveniles" and women "females" carries certain connotations, most of them bad.
  
  Using female as a noun (rather than as an adjective, such as in the phrase "female firefighter", or any phrase of the format "female $noun") is generally overly clinical and dehumanizing. Some people do it out of habit due to their profession-- usually researchers or soldiers-- but they usually say "males and females", which while still weird isn't the worst.
  The guys who say "men and females" are the ones you need to watch out for.
  
  It's not inherently derogatory, but it does hold a connotation if you refer to women as females particularly in contexts where you wouldn't/don't refer to men as males.
  
  Yes, using scientific terminology can be derogatory. But in this case, acting like the opposite sex is a species on its own, classifying them as animals and slurring all women as hoes gave it away for me.
  
  I thought it was just a more scientific classification.
  Scientifc classification by sex. Referring to others by their biological sex in a social context is weird and creepy. Even if you believe sex and gender are the same thing, it's still weird to call people by their sex. "Hello, male human. Want to ingest some fried pieces of cow flesh tonight?"
  
  If you are calling a woman “a female”, and aren’t a cop discussing a victim or a doctor writing a chart, then yes, it’s fucking derogatory.
  We’re not Ferengi.
  
  I thought it was just a more scientific classification.
  It's a classification of sex like biological characteristics, like chromosomes, hormones, and reproductive organs. Are you asking about that?
  Gender is a social construct. Just like race. Where you can be a Black person who is British. Or a Filipino American.
  Edit: downvoters, you know you can literally open up a scientific book and verify for yourself, right? Downvotes don't make a thing false.
  
  It is not. Americans are insane.

A reliable source on TV told me you can't go wrong with
- Ladies

- As a man who likes fedoras, this stereotype offends me. Sadly, it's an accurate description most of th etime.
  
  Usually it's a cheap Trilby anyway.
  
  You need to get big into two tone ska, then the fedora is socially acceptable again.
- And I can hear it spoken with a lisp that you get when talking with a mouth full of prosthetics. Pfemales
- I've never noticed that a ferengi head kinda looks like he's wearing a fedora already.
  
  They wore them so long they fused into their heads.

- I identify with this unironically as a low conscientiousness male feminist.
- Out of Context Comics is leaking!

- Could you see to my garden plx
- I hate that society attached hoe to women like equal rights men can be slutty
  
  Don't get me wrong I'm still a woman, just not one with a vagina :D
  And tru men can be slutty too

In most contexts, you’d just say…”people”.
Or, if you’re actually trying to make a demographic-wide statement, like how women aren’t good at video games, you’d just say:
“IGNORE ME, I AN A SEXIST MORON.”
Basically, the meme isn’t much meant for the word choice, it’s how often incels have statements to make on half the population.

You remember how everyone just used to say women 10-20 years ago? I guess that's woke now. So much for conserving.
- Woman is transphobic.
  
  Lmao nice try rightoid.
  Why yes, famously trans women hate the word women so much they use it on themselves /s

"people with vaginas" is one option ig. or if they also identify as women, cis women is another option
- I think "vag havers" is the preferred nomenclature.
  
  Vager?
  
  I prefer "pussy owners", sounds funnier.
- When did "people with vaginas" unironically become a way to refer to anyone, especially as an alternative to "female"?
  
  People with vaginas is the right terminology if discussing something that pertains to vaginas. Eg. "People with vaginas should make sure to see a gynecologist regularly." in this case, saying "women" would exclude/misgender many trans and intersex people who have vaginas but are not women, while also including some women who do not have vaginas and would not need to see a gynecologist
  
  well sometimes u need to refer to ppl who have a vagina, because having a vagina is somehow relevant to the topic of conversation. which in my experience comes up very rarely, so i dont have to use it very often.
  some people who have vaginas arent women, and so if the topic includes those ppl, then "people with vaginas" is the perfect phrase to use. and if talking about ppl with vaginas who all identify as women, cis women is more fitting.
  "female" is a very vague way of referring to something. some ppl use it to describe gender identity, others use it to talk about ppl with vaginas, others again use it to refer to ppl with estrogen-dominant hormonal systems, etc. etc.
  
  When the genital sexuals came on the scene. You know the ones who want to check everyone's genitals to make sure they are what they say they are. The ones who are only attracted to the genitals, they could care less what is attached to them.
  For them genitals is life and they have infiltrated our government to pass laws like bathroom bills. This will allow them to examine everyone's genitals. So far they appear to be winning and everyone's genitals will soon be seen by them.
  The Genital Safety Administration (GSA) will need to have a booth in front of our bathrooms there to perform their checks. Another genital sexual licking their lips in anticipation next time you have to drop a deuce.
- Casual erasure of post-op trans people is really fascinating to me. Like, how did our culture shift from the first thing people think about trans people being "have you had tHe sURgErY yet???" to "if you have a vagina and are a woman you are cis"?
  
  i know this is an old comment, but i wanted to reply anyway. im sorry for my comment. i hadnt thought about post-op trans ppl at all.
  to clarify however, it wasnt the "first thing" i thought abt trans ppl, im trans myself actually.
  i guess ive had too much contact with pre-op or never-op trans ppl and too little with post-op ppl to have this on my radar.
  i will try to be better in the future!

As a magical talking lion, I always go with, "Daughter of Eve."
- A talking lion and a flying squid? That's some Lovecraftian horror combo
  
  Flying Squid is just my mom de plume. I’m really a Jesus metaphor in big cat form.
- It's Lilith actually
  
  I know someone who ain't gettin' into Narnia. Not on Aslan's watch, lady!
  
  Common but baseless myth

feminine species

"of the feminine species"
Uh, do you want to explain to this guy what a species is, or do I have to?
- Well, he didn't say persuasion, at least...

Lady

clearly ingenue is the correct choice
or for a potential fun comment thread: is dude gendered? I grew up in a place where a lot of people called everyone dude regardless of gender. That said, when I’ve brought this up, some people get real heated about it.
- Hey dude, don't make it weird. Take a bad song and make it wetter.
- Dude can be gendered
  and some people will think you're just looking for an excuse to call men people who aren't, if you say that dude is not gendered to you
  we're on the internet after all, and no one knows the real intentions of the people behind the screen
  
  You know I've said "dude" all my life and I still use it all the time in regards to everyone. If I saw that someone was genuinely offended at being called dude I wouldn't use it again with that person, but now that I really think about it I don't think I've ever heard the term in a derogatory way. Like ever. For me it's always been a happy/inclusive word for addressing friends. My only worry for now is that saying it shows my age.
- the dude abides.
- To me this feels like you could say "Guys,
  <insert sentence directed at a group>
  ", as a general term to catch the attention of/refer to a mixed genre group as a whole. Anyone getting upset that you're using "Guys" in that context to refer to both men and women is just looking for an excuse

- What
  
  Ladies wasn't used in the Original Post.
  When playing a RPG of some sort, sometimes they give you the ability to reallocate all your talent points in a different way. Such as switching from melee focused to something magic oriented like a wizard or a witch. This is called a Respec, short for Re-specialization.
  Respec sounds very similar to Respect. The Original Post is about respecting women.
  I appreciate your interest in my comment, hope you have a nice day. Take care.

Is this why they always ask how to define "woman"?
- If someone asks you to a define a women, chances are they never met one in real life.

Yes but he's not looking for a woke word for "females", so "women" doesn't help.

Sexism is a helluva drug.

Dudettes

Women implies the existence of nimen and tamen
- Mmmmm... ramen
- Ooo help me learn today if you don't mind... Where does this prefix grouping come from?
  Edit: found it, I think: Chinese?
  
  Yeah, what they're saying doesn't make much sense logically though.
  Men here is 们, the plural marker for people. Wo (我) is I or me, wo+men (我们) we or us, ni (你) is you, ni+men (你们) is you (plural), ta (他/她/它) is he/she/it, and ta+men (+们) is they.
  Some other variants exists, and there's specifics on the usage. I also missed the tone markers on the pinyin because they're a pain to type.
  Anyway I'm not sure what joke or point they were trying to make.
  
  Correct; wo, ni, ta are the singular forms I, you, he/she/it. Adding the -men suffix turns it into the plural we/you/they.
  So literally, ‘we’ are ‘women’.
- Hmm. Wōmen... Men of Wō... I don't mean to be racist but their triads freak me out.

'feminine species' 😭😭😭
- TIL that apparently we're an entirely different species. Homo sapiens and lesbo sapiens?
  
  That kind of fella would use something derogatory instead of sapiens for women. That is, assuming they even knew what sapiens stood for in the first place.

Come on, that's just obvious bait

Female humans
Kinda long way to say women
- There is nothing wrong with "males/females" though. OOP is making a big deal of nothing.
  
  Outside of a clinical/scientific setting? It’s comes off a bit creepy. If a guy in a social setting refers to women as “females,” it seems derogatory- as if they were talking about lesser animals.
  In online forums like Lemmy or Reddit, if someone calls women “females,” I always picture that person as a Ferengi from Star Trek.
  
  OOP
  okay but how does object-oriented programming factor into it
  
  Men/women - gender (social). Male, female - sex (biology). It’s very simple, just use the right one depending on the context.

Here I go once again with the email
Every week I hope that it's from a female
Oh :( Not from a female
- *member of the feminine species

Meanwhile: males, dudes, guys, homies, fellas, bois, bros, lads, laddie, mates, geezers, chaps, gents, boss, hoss, cheif, buddy, pal, son, sonny, sonny boy, muchacho, hombre, old timer, Mac, Joe..
"Yeah what's up?"
I don't think we need to cancel Guys and Dolls just yet.
- I love that half of these are fully gender neutral terms of endearment in Australia 😂
  
  Honestly a lot of them start out as or still contextually imply "males" in the US, but can be used gender neutrally as well now too. Like "how you guys doing" vs "hanging out with the guys."
  
  Which just so happens to be the perfect segue for me to pitch my proposal to make 'cunt' the de facto (gender neutral, naturally) pronoun/collective pronoun.

Lass
- I favor wench.
- Now that's classy, my lassie!

The wimwams
- A guy walks into a psychiatrist's office. He says:
  "I'm a teepee, I'm a wigwam, I'm a teepee, I'm a wigwam, I'm a teepee, I'm a wigwam!"
  The doctor says, "Calm down man, you're two tents."

What is the difference between "people with vaginas" and "people with vaginas of the feminine species"? And what is the "feminine species"? Is it some (unspecified?) species where every specimen is of the feminine gender?
- He calls them the "female species" because the can't (won't) successfully breed with his own.
- People with vaginas include some trans men. The idiot in OP is not totally wrong. People with vaginas are females. But what he means is (cis) women.
  
  The way the OP phrases it rules out trans men who have vaginas, trans women who have vaginas, and a bunch of cis women who've had certain pelvic traumas or cancers and therefore don't have vaginas.
  What he's trying to say is "if you were born with a vagina and you align with it" which is actually still funny because I was born with my vagina, I like my vagina, I'll be happily keeping it even after all my surgeries....but if this OP saw my face he would put me in the "trans man" bucket because they lack nuance around identity.
  
  Also trans women can have vaginas (surgery), and it is possible to be born with a vagina but no (functioning) uterus.
- like how all cats are girls and all dogs are boys?

'Tarts' implies sweetness
I think
- Sir please stop licking the females
  
  Mmmmmm'lady
- Tarts evoke the perception of a sour flavor profile for me. Like "tart" flavor is sour/tangy

Broads.

I call em Snatchers
- Is the cute name "beaver" still used?
  
  Are Beavers really cute? The teeth of these large water rodents are orange because they are full of iron; these teeth never stop growing.
  But if you are being serious, women don't really like being reduced to names that refer to their pudendum. It is objectifying.
  Source: Canadian woman.
  Edit: just realized which sub this is posted in. Oh well, think of the vocab word "Pudendum" as my Xmas gift to you. (Refers to a woman's external genitals, ie. vulva.)

Girl?
- Little princess?
  
  Adorable little slut? 😡
  My adorable little slut? 🥺
  (it's me, I'm the adorable slut)
  
  Princess is a nasty thing to call a woman. https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/princesses-are-nsfw-f9e6c3d4532d
- that can still be infantilizing for an adult woman

Whatever happened to "femoid"? I know I read that one somewhere.
- The future is femoid

Wo-men? Well, I've heard of men, but this sounds like a foreign language to me.

Holy shit, R*ddit denouncing misogyny
- Not with Jailbait mod Spez at the helm.
  
  It’s important to note that jailbait featured girls who were intentionally posed/looked much younger than bordering 17. I think people might try to justify it/imagine it as older looking teenagers, it was not.
  The mods/power users also traded CSAM, and comment sections were used for trading the real thing. There may have been official rules against it, but these communities had codes.
  There was also violentacrez little empire. I don’t understand what purpose a community like “picsofdeadkids” has. I think even if you are a free speech absolutist you can question what obligation Reddit had to host such content.

My sides. xD

Girl, woman
- Girl can absolutely be interpreted as condescending if you're talking to/about an adult
  
  Hey girl calm down why are you getting so hysterical?
  Did I man correctly? 😇

I like "broads" mself.

Do women wanna be called "women" tho? I don't mean this rhetorically, but as a genuine question.
I for example, would hate to be called a "man". It just makes me sound old. I would prefer being referred to as "male", or anything that isn't the word "man". This is applicable to a lot of my friends too. Don't women feel the same way?
- Personally, I'd prefer to be called my name. To each their own I guess
  
  Hello, my name! 👋
  
  "Make me a sammich, jewbacca117" just doesn't have the same ring to it
  
  I suppose I can call you my name if you really want.
  
  With 117 I can only do chief, sorry.
  
  Is your name Mayor? Or is that your title?
- I don't see what's wrong with calling men 'men'. I don't mind it at all, seeing as it's a descriptor of what I am using the English language. What's your problem with the word?
  
  Not a native English speaker, so I guess I'm understanding the word wrong (judging from the other comments).
  It's just that calling someone a "man/woman" makes it seem like I'm calling them old? Like... I don't think we associate the word "man" with youth, right? Like... Whenever someone refers to me as a man (which is quite uncommon thankfully), I cringe a little inside.
- Not sure where you grew up culturally, but that seems like a very foreign concept to me personally. We use "boys"/"guys" and "girls" to demote young men and women. No one here would get the idea to use "male" and "female", which to our ears are purely biological words.
  
  Here in Australia we use male/female all the time.
  I physically cringe when I see Americans say stuff like “woman politician” instead of “female politician”. It sounds so grammatically wrong, that you legit sound like a caveman impression (ex. “Grug go car”).
  Having said that, we would also never refer to women as females. There’s some grammar rules that dictate when we use either, but female is certainly the more common term.
  
  Well, English is not the native language where I'm from. So perhaps it must be the cultural context for the word "man"? I mean, we don't use the words "male-female" much outside biological contexts as well.... I've just rarely seen anyone use the words "man/woman" for anyone our age (we're young adults for context).
- I’ve never encountered a man or woman that hated being called whichever was appropriate
  
  Must be cultural then (as another commentator pointed out). I'm not a native English speaker. Perhaps it must be different meanings associated to words influenced by my native language? Not sure haha
- Apparently not. The world would be a much better place if we all stopped making such a big deal about specific trigger words and focused on the ideas being communicated. If someone's intent was to be an asshole then sure, get the pitchforks out, but make it clear it's the idea that's bad. Don't just scapegoat the word. If they weren't obviously trying to be a dick then calibrate your response accordingly.
  To put it another way, if you're upset about the use of a word that a scientist might use to describe something then you're probably being overly sensitive.
  
  science is often biased by cultural ideas. biology, medicine, and psychology, have been used to pathologise or naturalise things along social lines. this is also reflected in the language they created.
  i think it is important for this language to be reevaluated, as culture and the scientific view on the world changes.
  with the distinction between gender and sex becomming more popular, having compleletly destinct words might for example be positive...
  
  Listen, I'm not against using any words. I'm just for using words, that if used cause no harm, and lead to people feeling better. We are emotional beings and it is unnecessary to try to pretend that we aren't.
  If someone wants me to call them "X", I would try to do that if it is not too out of my way, right? That's all.
  
  You are correct but social media lives and thrives on the idea of making people overreact to things.
  Genders, races, politics... It's all literally designed for people to argue with eachother while the owners profit on their "discussions" (actual discussions are banned because sensitive snowflakes needs protection).
- How have you applied age to the word "man"? Unless you're not an adult and "man" to you means being an adult?
  
  Guy probably is between 16 and 25 and doesn't want to be an adult lol
- It’s all about context. There are options that are context and age appropriate that aren’t condescending or clinically reductive.
  Men’s bathroom and Women’s bathroom > male bathroom and female bathroom
  “Hey, guys/gents”, “hey, girls/ladies” > “hey, men”, “hey, women”
  First woman President > first female President > first girl President
  
  "First president with vaginas," per above. Kinda like graduating with honors.
- ... honey, there could be another reason you don't like being called a man. 👀 Just a thought.
  
  Nah, I identify as male. It's just that the visual of a "man" for me is an older bearded dude with a deep voice.... which I'm not...
  
  Why would they want to be called, 'boy', 'male', etc then?

So much cultural imperialism in here.
Once US-Americans decide how they want a word used, they will harrass and cyber-bully everyone into using it the same way / using the same word
Boys, you need to realize that english isn't "your" language. You don't get to decide how others speak it.
- It's everyone's language, everyone can bully each other over it. The Brits added u to a bunch of words just to fuck with us..and then misspelled tire. Just last week heard an upper class indian with more British roots give a more Americanized indian man shit for spelling it tire rather than tyre, with zero knowledge of the history.
  On the whole I think English speakers are relatively polite about misunderstood words in person, even relatively racist asshats. But when you can't read the accent, you default to your own culture and in that culture it's pronounced to rhyme with tamales.
  
  My brother in christ, the british spelling is the original.
  The reason you spell it differently was a conscious decision of your revolutionaries to differentiate themselves from the brits
  You used the same spelling before your independence.
  And how about "noone can bully" instead of "everyone can bully"?
  Just throwing tht in the room here.
  I won't bully you for writing "recognise" just to assert your independence, you let us be us and everyone is happy, is tht a Deal?

"It's Ma'am"

'Extra-chromo-sapiens'.
The other ones are 'whiny-chromo-sapiens'.
'Arsehole' is a good cross gender term for any humans of known or unknown sex.

I love that this dumb dumb made a post on reddit. There are search engines, large language models, and the good ole thesaurus to find words that are synonyms. Figure. It. Out.

"seat-pee-ers"?

I call them flighty broads

What is a woman?
- Someone who covers her drink when you enter the room
- Try taking to one and find out.

If you call people with vaginas women, you now cross the line for trans folks.
No matter how you phrase it, there will always be someone you will offend. In the case of the word "female" this is driven purely by some folks finding ways to use it offensively, despite it being just as neutral as "women"
Don't assume malicious intent every time someone uses the word "female" - most likely, they have never put any negative connotations to it and possibly never even heard of this word being used in a negative context.
- I mean, if you're talking specifically in context about people with vaginas instead of women then using the gendered term does exclude both women without vaginas and men with them who are probably a relevant group in that context. But seriously how often does that come up for you? How often is the most important part of the woman you're referring to her anatomy?
  And while "females" is probably just as accurate in most contexts it's also been poisoned with incel vibes at this point and it's gonna be some time before it can be salvaged for general use outside of specific biological contexts without sounding like you're about to unload a whole lot of baggage into the thread instead of getting therapy.

Except "woman" doesn't mean "female person" anymore, it means "anyone who identifies as a woman" because attaching any common noun at all for people based on sex rather than gender would be accused of transphobia.
It's kind of like if someone asked what the term for the sexual orientation of someone who is interested in partners they could hypothetically reproduce with is, the answer is there isn't one and suggesting there should be will get called transphobic.
- Is it hypothetical because no one has wanted to reproduce with you for some elusive reason?
- partners they could hypothetically reproduce with
  "fertile women"
  "women capable of pregnancy"
  Outdated, slight red flag option: "gynephile"
  Or you could even try "I find women attractive and would love to have kids with the woman I love one day"
  There, language isn't that hard.
  
  You're actually demonstrating my point - I said "a common noun" for one and "a term" for the other. The whole point is that any "acceptable" language for those notions (a person of the sort who possesses female genitals and potentially has ova that she could hypothetically carry to term and identifies as a woman and a person attracted to the sort of person they might hypothetically be able to reproduce with) has to have at the very minimum an adjective if not an entire phrase attached to it.
  For example, imagine someone tried to re-popularize the old English words to refer to cis folks, using wifmen for cis women in this example. That would immediately be deemed transphobic, specifically because it's a common noun to refer specifically to cis women and not a shared category you have to use an adjective or phrase to differentiate from.
  Same thing applies to orientation - we have a lot of words for sexual orientations. But a word for a person who is attracted to cis people of a given sex relative to one's own is unacceptable - the very idea that there could be a term for it is transphobic. Despite sexual attraction being one of those rare cases where what genitals you have and whether or not they're the original equipment is actually relevant.
  Also wouldn't "gynephile" meaning one who has an attraction to women still not be precise enough, since women includes trans women by definition, at least the feminine ones?
- Just say what you mean. Intersex and trans people exist. For example, "menstruator" or "people who menstruate" if you're talking about periods. Not all women menstruate, not everyone who menstruates is a woman, and hell, there are plenty of people who have uteruses but don't menstruate. It's way clearer and inclusive.
  
  Somehow this stuck with me, and while you are correct, in any conversation about menses I'd probably want to include the people who eg. use contraceptive methods that temporarily stop them, and people whose periods are so irregular they simply don't know if the next one is coming or not (my group). Personally I'd also want to include and hear from people who used to menstruate but no longer do, or who are likely to start soon.
  In statistics afaik they tend to use "women of fertile age", which makes sense for those purposes, to limit it to one clear-cut group for clarity. In gynecology for individual patients I don't think any term is used, just a list of properties ("G0P0 menarche 12 cycle 28 duration 5 normal flow, last period 1.1.2025") and then you move on to the issue.
  And that's for periods, a relatively clear-cut thing. Then you get to "people who had the female/male experience when growing up", or "people who perform the traditionally female/male role in a relationship" or the like.
- You thought you ate with this comment 😂
- Do you often find yourself in discussions where the trans-inclusivity/exclusivity of the term is important to know?
  Because whenever I use "men, guys" or any other such term, whether it includes trans people doesn't even cross my mind. Like the discussions if we should welcome "guy friends" at our girls' game and gossip nights, or if I'm being too naive around "men". Talking about "males" like an alien species would be weird and mildly offensive. (Mildly because the Finnish word "uros" can imply admiration for a man's masculinity.)
  If you wanted a term for potential partners you could possibly reproduce with, none of the "female, woman, male, man" terms by itself would do, because (even personally known) infertility for various reasons exists.
- So that hypothetic person is turned off by learning someone is infertile for any reason?
  
  Let's say yes, since we're in a hypothetical. Breeding fetish, perhaps? Maybe just someone who's specifically looking for a long term relationship leading into children?

Trans women want to be referred to as just women, and biological women don't want to be referred to as Cis women, so other than female, what is there?
I agree that I get the ick from female when referred to by certain men, but at this point, I don't see another option.
- The other option is "women"
  
  Works for most conversations, I agree
- Not wanting to be referred to as cis, is just as ridiculous as not wanting to be referred to as straight. It just means "not trans". The women who don't want to be referred to as cis are TERFs, so their opinions are irrelevant.
  
  Is it just as ridiculous as not wanting to be referred to as trans? Why label what something is not rather than what something is?
- The problem is female and women aren't grammatically equivalent, so you can't just drop one in place of the other anytime you want. It bugs me when people say woman president. Imagine electing a man president. The correct word in that case is male. You'd be electing a male president. I don't care about anyone's politics. I'm just getting tired of people in suits on tv using poor language and being asked to be taken seriously. And I'm not singling out democrats. Republicans adopted that language too. There are people on tv who wouldn't pass kindergarten telling us what they think will affect GDP.
  
  I find your assertion that anything resembling "thinking" may occur at any point with such people either very generous or quite naive 😋
- /s?
  
  I sure hope so