Nintendo and Pokémon are suing Palworld maker Pocketpair
Nintendo and Pokémon are suing Palworld maker Pocketpair
Now the lawyers will battle.
Well that took a while but its finally here.
But also incoming Moon channel video now
The details are still up in the air, but 404media has chimed in with a legal expert on this deplorable situation. They mostly talk about what damage this could do, and how Nintendo has never lost a lawsuit, but I found this to be an interesting key point
Nintendo has, as I mentioned in my tweet, a legendary track record. I think they never lost a lawsuit that they initiated themselves, and under the Japanese legal system, seven years ago, they sued a company called Colopl, which is a mobile gaming powerhouse from Japan. They [Colopl] have, I think, almost 2,000 [employees], nobody but knows them outside Japan but they had a famous mobile game called White Cat Project, not copying Mario, not copying Pokémon, not copying Zelda, nothing at all. Nintendo brought forward six patents that they thought that this company was violating inside their very successful mobile game at one time. It was one of the most popular mobile games in Japan, and they built a huge case. One of the patents was for a confirmation screen after sleep mode. You know when devices are sleeping and you want to resume there's a confirmation screen in a lot of games? “Are you sure you want to resume?” And then you tap yes or no. Nintendo has a patent on that, and this game uses it. And then Nintendo said, you know, look, you're using our patent and you cannot do that. You're not paying us any licensing fees.
And they had five other ones, including one for isometric, pseudo, 3D games, when the character is hidden behind the tree, the game forms a shadow, so you have a kind of sense for where the character is, even though you don't see the character clearly. Nintendo has a patent on that, and this game uses that technology. And Nintendo said, look, you cannot do this. And this goes on with four other patents, right?
So they had this legal battle. Colopl said, no way, but in 2021 they had a settlement where Nintendo got the equivalent of $20 Million US dollars and Colopl is now paying licensing fees to Nintendo for continuing to use the patents inside their mobile game. So it was a complete win for Nintendo, even though it was technically a settlement. I personally think you will see that after a few years, Nintendo will be in a very, very similar position. I don't think that Nintendo will even think about filing a lawsuit like this without being as sure as they can that they're going to win this.
If you are unaware, this was done because of the launch of Dragalia Lost, a game that has long been forgotten, and discontinued.
I understand and participate in the hate against Nintendo but Palworld was a game with such bad taste for me that I am just grabbing the popcorn on this one. For anyone surprised regarding the patents, for Tears of the Kingdom alone, Nintendo tried to file at least 30 patents. I have no idea how many they must have for mechanics from Pokémon.
Without a doubt, Patents and Software are a bad mix.
But there's definitely a truth to the idea that Palworld in particular were aiming for a legal battle against Nintendo from the beginning with provocative action. There's a reason why Nintendo has rarely gone after Pokemon-likes but have decided that this particular company is worth pursuing.
This is kind of a lose-lose situation. Palworld was clearly kit-bashing existing Pokemon models and were engaging in creative bankruptcy, but software/game patents serve only to hurt creatives and developers around the world and Japan in particular is poor around SLAP suits.
So, I agree, grab the popcorn. But I hope that whatever patents they're choosing to enforce here don't have a major ripple in game development as a whole. There's a world with the brazen IP theft of palworld actually does us all a disservice by making it an easier case for Nintendo to enforce Patents that would otherwise be unenforceable or difficult purely out of optics.
If it's about those pretty similar character models like those linked in the article, then I can understand Nintendo better.
But if it's just about the concept of "collecting monsters" and using them in battles somehow, then they can go fuck themselves. I'm eager to learn where they see their patents infringed.But if it’s just about the concept of “collecting monsters” and using them in battles somehow, then they can go fuck themselves.
I don't think it would be that because it would be unenforceable. There are plenty of games where you collect monsters, some of which existed before Pokemon's creation and plenty that have existed after. It would be the King Kong case all over again, but inverted.
Having played Palworld a bit, some of the monsters are distinct from Pokemon, but some of them are incredibly obvious clones.
But like, looking back at some of the knock-off toys I remember seeing in the 80s and early 90s? It definitely seems like copyright has gotten more robust in its attempted overreach.
It's not copyright infringement... But patent infringement.
So the latter.
Go fuck yourselves Nintendo
Hopefully Pocketpair wins, because they made the better monster catching game. I'm still reeling from how bad the performance is in Scarlet/Violet.
Oh yes, the better monster catching game with better slavery and guns!
Oh yes, the better monster catching game with better slavery and guns!
American Pokémon 🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🦜
Somebody was suggesting this was deliberately done to bleed Pocketpair out of money and halt development that way, patent cases take years to be solved, and all during this time they have to keep paying lawyers. Nintendo likely has a small army of in-house lawyers so it's no trouble to them, but to their victims it's life-ruining.
Yeah except Palworld has joined Sony for their multimedia franchise, so potentially they can get a lot of monetary and legal support from that. Nintendo took way too long to actually do this frivolous lawsuit.
Let them fight.
They also sold 5 million copies in 3 days, and who knows how many copies since then. They can afford to pay good IP lawyers for a long time, if needed.
infringes multiple patent rights
What exactly is infringed here? I don't see Palworld infringing anything Nintendo does (no its not sarcasm).
I'm not sure how the term "patent" is to be interpreted here. It could be used like back in the days when Apple sued Samsung because their phone had rounded edges too...
Like a "design patent" (sorry, I'm not a native English speaker, so I'm unsure if this is the correct translation).
A lot of the pals in the game look quite close to Pokémon. Not identical, of course, but so similar that one just has to wonder if the design has been "inspired" by Pokémon...
Pokemon design isn't patented, they are secured by copyright. As long as they do not copy a Pokemon design directly, they are safe. Being inspired is not a copyright infringement. Patents usually are about hardware and other mechanical solutions, in example a certain dialog system. And it needs to be patented and all patents are open to see, I think.
Only thing I can think of are maybe the catching mechanics (which are straight out of Legends: Arceus). No idea if these would be considered unique enough to be patentable, guess we'll find out.
They literally tried to patent the loading screen and mechanically locking a player object to a moving object ingame just after the release of TotK. Nintendo is the absolute king of frivolous gaming patents. Here's hoping it's their downfall. For an example of how seriously vague some of the patents they've been granted are, check out some of their current ones after pokemon sleep's initial success (basically trying to keep everyone without 9 digit money out of the sleep app game space).
Permanently Deleted
While I agree, Nintendo as a corporate entity sucks major balls, "nothing of value in at least a decade" is patently false.
- One of the best selling consoles of all time that also signalled a hardware paradigm shift to popularize hybrid consoles/handhelds
- BOTW
- TOTK
- Mario Odyssey
- Metroid Dread
- Smash Ultimate
- Fire Emblem
- Xenoblade
Like, yuzu wouldn't have been such a smash hit if Nintendo was releasing value-less titles.
I agree. The game development side of Nintendo are top notch, and care a lot about quality game design, fun, replayability, all the good stuff. These people do good work.
But the corporate/legal side of Nintendo, they are indeed raging assholes.
While I agree, its still his opinion if Nintendo did anything of value. BTW I played Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom this year on Yuzu. And I'm proud of it. Great games, although with big problems. I would add Super Mario Maker 2 and Super Mario Wonder to the list, and maybe Bayonetta 3, Lugi's Mansion 3, Splatoon 3, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and probably a few more.
I will pirate anything from them that looks even remotely interesting. But I've never given them a cent and I sure as hell never will.
Claiming "multiple patent rights" without mentioning smells like kafkatrapping.
I think that Nintendo's delayed reaction was to gauge how much money it could get from bullying Pocketpair to accept some unfavourable settlement outside the court; if too little the costs would be too high to bother, considering the risk, but now that Palworld sold a bazillion it's more profitable to do so. It might actually backfire if Palworld decides to go through the whole thing, I don't know how Japanese law works in this regard but if Nintendo loses this certainly won't look good for them, and even if they win it might be a pyrrhic victory.
I don't get it. I mean I get it because it's Ninty, but I don't get why now?
Has there been something in a major new feature update that has finally tipped the scales into clearly taking the piss, or have the legal team at Big N finally seen their erections subside after the game's launch and only now can move enough to do something about it?
Considering they're going for patent infringement and not copyright infringement, it's possible it just took this long for Nintendo's legal department to find something even remotely tangible that they could sue over. And since they haven't said what patents Palworld infringes on, I have to assume whatever it is, is very flimsy.
Despite their reputation for being quick, my opinion is that Nintendo does often take their time. Most of the things they take down do exist for months or years (and also follow the same format of a ROM hack that got a lot of attention so easy copy paste). My assumption is they're just dotting their i's and crossing their t's and patent is just what they think they'll have the best chance at winning.
My best guess: whatever they're filing now was so exhaustively researched that it took months to prepare the strongest case they're able to make, possibly delayed by the lawyers working on several other cases. Plus waiting until sales have dried up can maximize damages.
Another possibility is that Nintendo/TPC is planning to make some big Pokémon announcements soon and wants to target this shortly before their own new games to reduce competition. Palworld might seem like more of a threat to the execs now that Pokémon is nearing a major release than it was in the middle of a long drought for the series.
They should look up "Streisand effect"
If corporations are to be considered people they should have to have shins or something to kick them in!
Am tired of hearing about Nintendo attacking everyone who even thinks about fun outside of their discrete products.
Ninty? I know by context it means Nintendo, but why Ninty? Is there any connection this specific abbreviation is used here?
Changed it 🤷 I've no idea why I decided to abbreviate there at all.
The claim says patent claim. This isn't design related then. What is the claim then? Appearance of monsters doesn't make a patent case.
Nor the whole idea of capturing opponents to raise them and make them fight for you. That's from 1987 already, from the Shin Megami Tensei series; it predates Pokemon by a fair bit.
Except they filed a patent for exactly that recently, so I'm guessing it is for the capture mechanics. It shouldn't pass muster in that case, but Japanese courts be wild (and very pro-Nintendo).