Government considering banning smoking in UK pub gardens and outdoor restaurants

All fine and dandy until the neighbours start complaining that the regulars are now smoking outside their houses which happen to be just outside the pub exclusion zone.

They already do that anyway around me. The beer garden is on the other side of the road from the pub (Which is apparently allowable because it's not an adopted road?).

Anyway sometimes people somehow manage to get lost crossing the 3m road and end up outside people's houses sitting on the walls and stuff. I do mind the drinking but I object to them smoking and then me having to smell it.

Good - and take vaping with it.

There is the famous Yes, Minister argument about smokers being a net postitive for the NHS given that they are likely to die younger of smoking related diseases instead of requiring expensive care for more complex diseases later in life.

A study in Finland found that each smoker contributed a net positive of 133,000 euros to their health system by dying younger (on average). Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23233699/

I don't think people in the UK care about this though. People seem to be consistently in favour of banning anything that they don't personally partake in. This is despite the fact that smoking rates are at their lowest levels ever and still falling.

Labour are looking for a policy which is cheap for them to implement but has some popular support so they can basically say, "look at us; we're governing!"

From the same study you linked:

However, if each lost quality adjusted life year is considered to be worth €22 200, the net effect is reversed to be €70 200 (€71.600 when adjusted with propensity score) per individual in favour of non-smoking.

Then there are the risks to other people from second hand smoke: https://www.nhsinform.scot/healthy-living/stopping-smoking/reasons-to-stop/dangers-of-second-hand-smoke/
People seem to be consistently in favour of banning anything that they don't personally partake in.

If that's your takeaway then you're an idiot. People can smoke all they like, 50 packs a day if you want. Go for it.

But not near me. In your own house.
- Yes in your own house, but not in your garden or with your windows open, because that's too close to me!
  
  You sound ridiculous.

Ridiculous everyone should just make do and put up with my addiction,what am I supposed to do smoke at home?!

RIP Pub workers having to put up with the "rebels" doing their upmost to take the piss I worked through the indoor ban went pretty well but there were a couple of those I am so smart I beat the system types.

The indoor ban where i live was an absolute shitshow. Both smokers and bar owners were the biggest piss babies about it. the owners formed smoking clubs, where you had to be in the club and pay a 10 dollar fee or something, so you are not in a pub, you were in a smoking club that happened to sell drinks. Nice, now i can pay a fee and smell like an ashtray? That's so cool.

I never realised how much people want to be controlled by the government when I was younger.

This is fucked.

"But the government wants to ban something I don't like! That's good. They should stop others doing things I don't like!"

That's the purpose of the government.

If most of the people want something to be banned, it should be banned. The government works for the people.

Of course, the definition of "most" varies depending on the issue, it's not always 50% (looking at you, Brexit).

Smokers pollute the air in a huge area around them. For the "benefit" of one person they are annoying up to dozens around them.

Every non-smoker looking to date that I know agrees that they would never date a smoker, that's for a reason, non-smokers cannot tolerate the smoke. It's awful.
- Now do vapes. I find that disgustingly sweet vapour harder to tolerate cigarette smoke. But I get pleasure of people blowing yhat crap in the air in the supermarket.
There is a difference between not being allowed to fuck a horse and not being allowed to stink up a place with some gross ass cancer sticks.
- Yes, yes there is.
Yes, blame the government for wanting to protect people’s health.

Absolutely trust the smokers who are clearly capable of making the correct descision instead.
- There an element of personal freedom which people find important.

This is completely okay and the people who are calling this bad are coping and should quit stinking up public places with their disgusting shit.

Just as long as they include bloody vapors as well. If you're not using vapes to quit then you don't get to blow raspberry smoke in my face.
- I don't mind vaping nearly as much but I'd say that sounds fair
nanny state bootlicker

Good luck.

As an expat who’s recently visited back, I’m astounded at how UK smokers behave. Not even on a night out either; the chef on break flicking the finished end into the street puddle, folks lighting up right outside shop entrances, or the general lack of awareness towards smoking around children. Socially learned behavior that never gets the same tutting you might a speeding car or queue jumper.

I took a trip abroad years ago and was bewildered to see a guy light up and then pull out a foil-type pouch too. Not only did the butt go into that pouch for later disposal, but all his ash did too. I’ve heard Japan is much the same way, even Americans are far better culturally about sequestering themselves before smoking.

Fucking madness.

Absolutely stupid.

Is it? Second hand smoking still fucks you up, and it's not like being outside completely fixes that.
- unless they are literally blowing it into your face there really isnt much health risk
- Car pollution fucks you up, too, probably more so. And before you say "people need cars to get places", nicotine (and caffeine) fuelled the industrial revolution - nicotine makes your brain work faster, which can make people more productive.
1987 smoking banned in London public transport following the deaths of 31 people in a fire

2005 banned in nationwide public transport

2008 banned in enclosed public spaces

2018 banned in prisons

I'm curious do you think they're all stupid or just this one? Isn't this one just an extension of "please don't smoke directly in front of the hospital doors" for other public places?

What about the proposed plans to raise the smoking age year on year every year?
- Banning smoking in prisons was insane. It was pioneered by "failing" Chris Greyling and essentially created a whole new category of contraband. I was watching a Business Insider doc on youtube about this and a former prisoner was saying that since this policy came into place, a pack of cigarettes is now valued at hundreds of pounds when traded between prisoners.
- An enclosed space is very different to outside. That's why you don't run your car indoors.
  
  Should we ban pubs from having car parks? Since the exhaust fumes are quite toxic.
- Are you a little bit slow? You don't see the difference between indoor and outdoor?
What, smoking? I agree.
Absolutely brilliant.

Smoking is a choice and you're choosing to make it someone else's problem by smoking at pubs
- By definition a substance use disorder is not a choice.
Absolutely authoritarian.

Education campaigns are far more effective with far less pushback than draconian bans. Let people choose for themselves.

I remember constant campaigns in the past trying to convince the public of the ills of smoking, and it (slowly) appeared to be working. Then vaping came along, and instead of continuing the education campaigns, the health departments tactics seemed to change to "take up vaping, it's better than smoking".

And now, it may just be anecdotal, but smoking appears to me at least, to be on the rise again. I wonder why?
- Sounds like the same argument against banning smoking in pubs, which is probably the single greatest health intervention in the last fifty years and now supported by basically everyone.
- This reminds me of the pushback against mandatory seat belt use in the US. It's absolutely in the public's best interest to ban public smoking and arguing that people should make their own decisions is ridiculous. Make smoking inconvenient for smokers and allow people in pubs and bars to enjoy smoke free air.
- Health departments are recommending vaping, are they? Are you just making things up?
- Yeah bloody government, making laws, making people's lives better, how dare they.
  
  I liked it back in the old days when 4-year-olds worked down the pit and no one back an eyelid, and then died quietly of tuberculosis. Snowflakes these days....

It’s 2024. Why the fuck is anyone still smoking anyway? Ban it

I don't really care if they ban it or not I just want them to ban it in public. People want to smoke in private that's their prerogative and they really couldn't care one way or the other.

But it actually has to be in private, not just sitting on your doorstep in a dressing gown at 9:30am on a Tuesday with everyone walking past you on the street. That might just be around me though.