My wife said what made her consider a first date with me was that when she said she was unemployed because of disability my next question wasn't about that, but what she likes to do for fun. That was it. I didn't ask prying personal questions within the first 5 minutes of matching with her and she was like "wow how considerate lets give this one a chance".
On a somewhat similar subject, you know what's fucked up? I was interacting with this weirdo online who asked me why I'm a feminist, but here's the catch: he assumed that I'm a cisgender man in the process for some reason. In no way, shape, or form did I even indicate that I am a cis man.
Simply put, I explained to him some very surface-level ideologically feminist shit about seeing a lot of value in advocating for women's rights and tearing down the construct of patriarchy as a whole, and with that assumption that I am a cis man saying these things, he baselessly accused me of only saying that to try to "simp" for women and supporting feminism with ulterior motives to have sex with them.
Two points:
- That assumption is so wrong that it's laughable; I'm a transfeminine non-binary person who could directly benefit from the abolition of patriarchy as an individual.
- It scares the shit out of me that, even if I were a cis man, the only way this asshole could interpret someone being a male feminist is the automatic assumption that they are pretending to be so just to exploit women for sex. This is actually concerning (and obviously projection) because it shows that there are men who'd go as far to believe that it's out of the perception of a man to simply just support feminism for the sake of agreeing with it ideologically, like "You think women should have rights? No way a man could possibly ever think that! You're just hoping they'll sleep with you for saying that!"
Yeah, I read posts online about guys lying about their awful politics to women sometimes and it grosses me out.
Yeah this has to be extremely prevalent. Whenever I see a couple whose socio-political beliefs are counter to each other, I wonder how anyone could spend their lives with people who ideologically hate them…
It would make sense that it was a bait and switch and sunken cost kicked in. “Stay together for the kids” type situations or worse.
Well the average guy is to the right of the average women (at least in the US ? I think) so I would assume its pretty common for many conservatives/rightwing guys to tone down some of their more unhinged positions while dating.
Your second point is so good.
It starts before you can even read. Even as a wee lad I remember any time I interacted with girls, my parents or some other parents would make a stupid comment about us dating. This shit happened all the way through high school. I never understood it, like why can't I just be friends with them?
Then the majority of those wee lads grow up into men that have known women as nothing more than some thing to be acquired.
Well, the second point exists because there ARE men that solely support women's rights because they want to have casual sex with them. I know, I've met them in bars and it is pretty clear their support for women's liberation is literally only skin deep, as in they only seek women's sexual liberation so that more women will want to have sex with them. It's somewhere in the line of 'All women are either whores or angels', and they are looking to create more angels (women who want to sleep with them).
Now, that being said, these kinds of guys are pretty few and far between, but are seen as ubiquitous and constant voices driving the discourse within media (see South Park, Metalocalypse, and multiple sitcoms such as Two and a Half Men or 30 Rock). I'd go so far as to say that for the past 30 years or so, that has been the mainstream and online comedy trope about male feminists. Once again, people have mistaken the heightened voice of a media archetype written primarily by non-feminist voices as feminist. Literally mixing up reality and media fantasy.
Edit: It's not nearly as prevalent as 'guy who completely misrepresents his politics to his girlfriend', but that rarely gets talked about.
I hate to admit it, but you're right. I find that's exactly why this loser immediately jumped to such a conclusion. These kinds of men will project this mentality because of them thinking "If I identified as a feminist, I'd definitely be doing it to be deceptive of women." Not so coincidentally, these are the same men that accuse feminism of being a "female supremacist" or "man-hating movement." Like, my brother in Christ, if you don't want women to hate you, stop being so damn hateable.
Well, the second point exists because there ARE men that solely support women's rights because they want to have casual sex with them.
Let Ethereals be here
When my friend, his kids and I were out getting groceries, an older woman asked my friend "Are you babysitting today?" They answered "I'm a dad, I'm parenting" in a way that made it clear that this was not the first time they've been asked this (they confirmed it was fairly common actually). I asked some of my other guy friends if they got that question before too, and they all said yes, at least once. The bar does not get higher after marriage/kids culturally
They answered "I'm a dad, I'm parenting"
That answer is 420.6969% correct. It also reveals how fucked up our understanding/views of cishet relationships are, it's really bad to think that proper child-rearing somehow a burden. Taking care of children should be something we celebrate not something we mock with these sorts of jokes.
I don't have the knowledge to articulate this thought and I'm sure other big dawg leftists throughout history have already done so much better than I could. It's really fucked up that we see parenting (particularly when father's do active fatherhood-ing in public) in modern life. I don't have the language for it, but it's just plainly bad how we look at parenting.
I don't have the theory or the background or the experience to talk on parenthood but as an outside observer, I have always found it weird that all childcare-ing (particularly in public) is coded as "women's work", and often that "women's work" is outsourced to poorer women by richer women. Which is super fucked up.
it's really bad to think that proper child-rearing somehow a burden
I’m probably misapplying dialectical materialism here, but whatever it’s kinda fun: there are inherent contradictions even in parenting. I have multiple young kids. I can tell you, it is hard. Not a burden, but it’s hard a lot of the time. If you see me in the store with them I will probably look exhausted and overwhelmed. And in the moment, it might even feel burdensome. But my kids are awesome and I wouldn’t trade being a parent for anything. Trying to raise them right is my #1 life goal and it’s incredibly rewarding to me (but not rewarding to everyone, I should clarify that point. If you know you don’t want kids you probably shouldn’t IMO). But the burden/reward is dialectically related. Those little humans just love you so much and are dependent on you for everything. That takes a lot out of you but also makes it all truly a joy even if there are moments when I can’t see it.
I'm sure other big dawg leftists throughout history have already done so much better than I could
Engels, Sankara, a little Mao, probably others too
Yeah, this kills me. But seeing what some other dads have done (or not done) wrt their kids, I see why the attitude exists.
For sure. Their expectations are set based on their experiences which is very sad. I'm sure they didn't even mean anything by it is the thing -- if anything, they probably saw it as a positive because it was counter to their own experiences. Shit's fucked
I thought all the Jordon Paederson garbage at least taught dipshits to clean their mess
it tells them they're supposed to. but they seem to treat those rules the same way christians treat jesus's teachings. "oh thats a nice ideal to aspire to, if only i were the perfect human maybe i could suck less than i do now"
For the few that actually did it worked wonders. Thats how Peterson got so much traction with them. Out of all the internet manosphere talking heads, he was the only one that actually gave any real advice.
I've had good results on dating app profiles by simply saying that I will (a) never talk about my car, and (b) never interrupt my date when they're talking. Low bar indeed.
the bar is so fucking low and men cant be bothered to do the bare minimum, and then they go online and cry about how: "womenz bad"
shit then me being essentially a boy-maid gives me pretty good chances huh
Good chances to get women too
If you're clean, chill and can take care of yourself you've already cleared the bar that was buried under the floor.
Wow. Maybe I should give dating a try. I guess...
eating ass and hygiene
I'm here to kick bubble gum and chew ass
@WhyEssEff@hexbear.net dick kickem emoji when
Not a woman but was assigned as one at birth, so I can say that the bar is usually even lower than that.
is the bar that low?
the bar is not even on the iceberg chart
Thanks for translating into zoomerish, I didn't know what the others meant by "hell" 🙏
That's... not even as low as the bar goes. Just existing and taking out the trash is often enough.
Everything is fucked.
Literally the 🐻 minimum
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The
minimum.
In my last year of dating, every woman I've spoken to has effectively said the same thing: "The bar is in hell".
As long as you are kind and clean, you can almost certainly get a few dates. Not to say that every woman will jump at you, but those two things mean you've got a good shot at a date or two.
Yes.
I found one that did all this but also worked at a library and was handy and had his own tools, so I kept him!
(He has many other virtues of course, but these were the ones that most impressed all the women I knew at the time.)
I'd love to work at a library... But the pay is shit...
I once dated a smoking hot model way out of my league. What made her give me a chance was that I was the first masc person not to ask her about her buzz cut.
This happened to me two different times.
The bar is in hell
If you're looking for a roommate then sure this is accurate I guess. But love and romance is a lot more complicated than that. Doing the things listed in this meme is not going to make someone fall in love with you immediately, and you shouldn't expect it to, it's just part of being a self sufficient person. Sure it can be the icing on the cake, or the reason someone may consider dating you over people who don't do these things, and can be a sign of caring and respect that allows love to grow over the long term, but there needs to be done kind of initial spark, attraction or romantic connection. Without that, this just makes you a good roommate.
Also, people (including women obviously) are prepared to deal with a lot of nonsense and what would usually be unacceptable behaviour when it comes from someone that they love and have a connection/chemistry with. If you're young, you'll see this a lot as you get older, and many times it's not worth the trouble to try advise someone to leave their terrible partner, you'll end up being seen as the bad person.
Then there's obviously the conditioning we all go under in living under patriarchy that conditions men and women to behave in certain ways and perform certain tasks. Women aren't a monolith, and there are absolutely women out there (usually socially conservative and religious) who will look down on a man for doing what they view as "women's work". But I guess most people on this website aren't interested in that kind of old fashioned relationship dynamic, and for good reason. I certainly would not want to be in that kind of relationship.
Not a lady though, just my two cents based on what I've seen and experienced as a bisexual man.
Honestly it's sad that this response didn't get any engagement other than some likes. It's on this point that I have a huge issue with leftist discourse. They act like all you need to do is "be a nice person" and suddenly you'll find a date. But as any cis-het guy knows, that doesn't actually work. Like you said, attraction is completely different than just being a decent person.
To people that have said "I was just nice and I got a date/girlfriend/wife" I say this: is there some other factor you aren't aware of? Are you tall, decent looking, etc? Did you grow up with male role models that "taught" you how to flirt? Did you get lucky in high school and build of that experience in a positive feedback cycle? Most people who are successful at dating wouldn't be able to tell you why, even if their life depended on it. It's just the water they swim in (similar to how people who had good circumstances and lucky breaks think that success is just "hard work").
Finally, the whole "just be a nice guy" advice is actually suuuuuper dangerous because a guy is going to be nice, not get any dates, get friendzoned, and then head into the red pill sphere because they are practically the only guys out there that try to give dating advice that isn't your cliche "be yourself" horsefuckshit. And the left doesn't do anyone any favors by saying "you just need to completely change your whole mindset and outlook" while you got all these "a-hole" guys getting success with even "nice girls." The disconnect is gonna make any potential leftist guy do a 180 and head into the red pill sphere. Like you said, even guys who do shitty things will get success in the dating world, so we need to acknowledge that and try to build dating advice around what actually works. Anyway I just wanted to rant about that huge blind spot I see in the left.
I came a long way on the dishes, i fucking hate doing dishes
I'm okay with them, I put on some Japanese Soul and get scrubbing. I actually do like cleaning and cleanliness...
I likr when theyre clean i hate getting my hands wet and dirty and touching sharp things
I've heard wearing those big purple washing gloves can help if you absolutely dread getting your hands soaked in hot crap.
I should do that
Definitely not me letting dishes pile up for 3 days because I don't want to do "just one dish".
The bar is so low satan would need a backhoe to dig it out.
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Ladies, sometimes I even change the bed sheets too 😎 😘
ladies, is this true?
what do you think based on what you have observed and experienced?
I barely leave the house. I'm kind of a shut in. A weirdly hygienic and caring for himself shut in.
I barely leave the house.
Well may his holiness st. bhagavan sri matt christman (sallalahu alayhi wasallam) bless your heart mate. Your profile says you probably live in poland therefore staying indoors as much as possible is completely understandable if one is a sane human being. I support you in all your endeavors and wish you a happy life.
After reading the comments on this thread, what conclusions have you come to? Are they what you expected?
Sadly such standards we should all agree with became so rare that when it happen we're surprised.
When not cheating and taking out the trash is the bar, I start to wonder why I even wash my ass…
I ain't eatin' an unwashed ass ew :disgost:
Ong
Pretty much.
Honestly I'm kind of a slob and I've done alright I'm married and stuff
I need to specify here that they should be doing those things on instinct (not perfectly, just if shit is piling up be bothered enough to do something about it) without constantly being told to like I'm their mother.
Otherwise, yeah I guess that used to be my bare minimum before I learned more about myself.
As a guy almost all of my romantic success with women has come down to not being annoying. So yeah. Checks out
