Imagine being afraid of the ‘friend zone’
Imagine being afraid of the ‘friend zone’
Oh no, my miserable life that’s devoid of any connection and anyone altogether otherwise *at least contains a friend.
What the fuck man, is this a real concern average people have that I’m way too fucking alienated to understand
[Medium: Failure] — "The friend-zone" is the single worst place any wöman could dare to put you in. It's where you're sent when — for some unknown, female reason — she doesn't value you as a potential mate. That she values someone with better mate qualities than you. That's what the friend-zone is; it's wöman's way of saying "fuck you".
— It's really that bad? — Of course, bröther. The gynocentrists want you to think it's fine. Break your conditioning. Keep pushing. Your persistence will prove how much you deserve her.I don't buy the misogyny arguments here. I remember being a teenager, and that shit feels desperate. Everybody else is hooked up and they seem so happy, and you've found someone you feel like you can really connect with, but they don't feel the same. So you've made a big deal of it in your mind and when they say "I think of you more as a friend", it feels like a full-on breakup.
Of course, you still have to get over it, just like a breakup. Learning to deal with that stuff is part of growing up.
Even as an adult, couples tend to hang out with other couples, and it can be challenging to be the single person in a group.
I know some people go too far, wallowing in self-pity over being friendzoned, and it can poison a person. Maybe it seems silly from the outside, and you think they should just get over it, but I think people deserve empathy and support as much as possible. Ideally we can help people work through their shit and not let this little blip in their lives come to define them.
Okay I'm done rambling. Thanks for reading.
I mean, having romantic feelings for someone who doesn’t feel the same is a bummer. Like, you should get over it because obsessing over that is teenager shit. But it’s still a bummer.
I grow to dislike the concept. Notice how it focuses only on the one who wants to pursue a sexual/romantic relationship, as if platonic relationship is somehow lesser. Why don't we ever hear about the "sexual zone" or "romantic zone" about people who desire a deep platonic relationship with someone but who are placed in the "sexual/romantic zone" by that someone? It hurts to be previously friends with someone who gives you the cold shoulder once they find out you don't want to fuck them. Why should the sexual zoned person's feelings perspective and feelings be cast aside for the friend zoned person's feelings and perspective?
extreme horniness + emotional immaturity + unaddressed misogyny + a feeling of entitlement to sex + romantic rejection = upset about being "friendzoned"it happens to a lot of folks, and no doubt it hurts like hell, but once they see the ingredients, they realize the problem and they can choose to grow... or get worse.
I mean, if I'm romantically interested in someone and they say that they're not romantically interested in me, that sucks.
Emotions are not rational. I can cognitively know "I am not entitled to this person's romantic interest and having them in my life as a friend is just as valuable as being in a romantic relationship with them" but my emotions will still feel disappointed and saddened because my romantic feelings aren't being reciprocated. Confessing your feelings to someone is also a huge moment of emotional vulnerability, and being rejected in that situation can make one feel powerless and inadequate.
Are you gonna tell me that if you confess your feelings to someone and they give you the whole "Let's just be friends" response, your reaction is "Oh yay, I made a friend"?
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For me the way I see it as a guy, being friends with someone, while secretly or not so secretly holding out for something more romantically and/or sexually, is just disingenuous. It also comes across as really needy, desperate behaviour. Which, in my personal experience, is the biggest turn off for women. So you're not going to change their mind this way. The true motivations behind the "friendship" are extremely transparent and plain for everyone else to see. People can tell what's going on, you know what you're doing, the woman knows, all your mutual friends know on some level. There's a reason "orbiters" get made fun of constantly for orbiting a specific woman.
If you still want to be friends with the person you have a crush on after being rejected or realising that it can't happen for whatever reason, you're going to have to fully accept that they don't see you in that way. Then the friendship is longer based off of the idea that you can have a relationship. Failure to accept that will doom any future friendship for the reasons I've listed above. If you cant accept that, it's probably better to have less contact with the person or even stop seeing them, instead of going though the motions in some "friendship" which is built off of the idea/fantasy that you'll eventually date them.
What the fuck man, is this a real concern average people have that I’m way too fucking alienated to understand
Yes it is a real concern. And honestly, I think leftists are terrible at giving dating advice, especially when it comes to men. There are some considerate leftists that actually give concrete advice (like start exercising, find clothes that fit better, maybe trim the beard so it looks nice, get a good haircut or shave it completely if balding, try to look people in the eye instead of looking down all the time, learn small talk, learn banter, learn how to express romantic interest, find that difference between confident and creepy and know when you've crossed it, etc.) Most of the "advice" I see is just "don't be a r!pist!" and "don't harass women!" Like bro that's obvious, but to the guy that's constantly getting rejected, especially when apps like Tinder make it so the a few super good looking guys pretty much clean house (and this dynamic absolutely spills over into offline interactions), there needs to be better advice.
When this advice is lacking, or people dismiss these young men because "there are so many other problems why would I care about MEN!", this can lead to alienated young men finding their way into reactionary spaces. In this case a little prevention is worth ten tons of cure.
And lastly, I'll say this, it's completely disingenuous to remain "friends" with someone after you've been friendzoned if you initially had romantic feelings for them and those romantic feelings still persist. Unless your feelings magically also changed to platonic ones, then there's a relational imbalance that will always linger. It's better to just say "hey I like you in a more romantic way and even though you want to be friends, perhaps it's better that we don't hang out."
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I've come to understand the "friend zone" as a place where a person puts himself by being too spineless to either ask out the person in question and make their feelings clear, or resolve them internally on their own time and make peace with not pursuing them and keeping them as a friend. It's a painful cognitive dissonance that is brought entirely upon oneself. The proper way out is growth, but many just rage at it and refuse to change themselves.
is this a real concern average people have
No, it is a concern that incels have. The actual truth is that the people who complain about this shit have never even been friends with a girl and this "fRiEnD zOnEd" shit is just incels making up a scenario and getting mad about. In reality they would be over-joyed to have the privilege of being considered a friend by their crush or whatever.
im a pathetic loser unhealthily obsessed with their nearly unbroken lifelong loneliness and i dont really use the friend zone as a mental archetype or schema or trope, i just kinda emit jealousy waves at every happy person in line of sight/thought. even aside from romantic or sexual partners, it sucks to see other people that have the things i always wanted but never had, like social acceptance, physical fitness, opportunities and experiences during youth, and financial success. having non-romantic/sexual friends usually helps deal with these kinds of negative thoughts by forcing me to adopt a more socially acceptable persona, which gives me something else to focus on besides my own endless self deprecating internal monologue. but still i never seem to have friends irl that have the same intellectual/aesthetic interests/hobbies as me, as nice as they are otherwise.
couplehood is the modern religion and by that awesomely glib take i mean: there is tremendous socialization to find purpose and meaning (and absolution) in "the special someone", which has only seemed to heighten in the parts of society that want to stay on program while our institutions fail and the climate crisis looms. all that to say, i understand the desperation especially among the young. so much mass culture (TV, movies, music) tells them that the only thing they will ever do that matters is find someone who completes them (because of course they're incomplete as they are!).... it's a very efficient way to get everyone (single and not) out there consuming.
but of course, i agree completely with you, especially as i've gotten older. i value my friends and treasure making new ones in whatever context or however long it works out. i would rather have a new limited scope work friend to joke around with than a new ex- from a fraught relationship where at least one of us was not paying attention to the warnings of a bad match.
I'm afraid of the friend zone. By that I mean I'm afraid of making friends and have severe social anxiety
It's men who feel women are obligated to be their gf and or provide them with sex so they get pissed off when someone rightfully wants to just be a friend.
Anyone who complains about the friendzone is an incel that doesn't see women as anything other than objects to fuck
As a bi enby I can't even separate "wanting to be like someone" from "wanting to be with someone," let alone clearly separating platonic, romantic, and sexual feelings. Like I just wanna hang out and do whatever we vibe with, and that could include sexy stuff or cuddly stuff or hobby stuff or deep conversations or whatever. I guess ideally I would try to see someone not being interested in sex as similar to them not being interested in going skydiving together, though there's a lot of social conditioning that can make that difficult in practice. Generally though if I think somebody's cool then I'm happy to be able to hang out with them in whatever capacity works.
I has a HS friend who was madly in love with some guy and it messed up her life real bad pretending she can just be his friend. She was like some vampire thrall, it was heartbreaking to watch. Pretty sure she's still suffering from it. I wouldn't recommend deluding yourself that you can genuinely be friends with someone you're romantically attracted to. It is neither in your nor their best interest.
Especially when many of us are willing to send people to the enemy zone
Once upon a time I was scared of the friend zone until I realized that's such a shitty thing to be afraid of. Like, oh no, you're such good friends with someone they're not willing to potentially damage your relationship with one another by pushing it further. The friend zone is a good thing. Enjoy platonic love, share that love and relish in it.
In my experience, the friend zone is the result of attraction that’s gone unaddressed and has been overtaken by fantasy. If you spent more time fantasizing about your interactions with a person than you spend actually interacting with them, understand that there’s a good risk that they aren’t on the same page with your fantasies and may feel weirded out by you expressing them as if they were true. Better to be up front early about an attraction imo
This zone thing is fortunately more of a younger person's deal. Mid 40s, here - so not a problem.
For example, my very lovely former coworker just had a baby 2 months ago. I made (CW) BBQ for her and her husband and ran it over tonight to their house. I know how it is with having kids, and that first 6 months new parents don't really leave the house. So I made dinner.
Anyhow, I'd be lying if I said I'm not attracted to her but we really are just friends. I have no idea how she feels about me, and I'm trying to find out since I'm married. We're both married. Point is, I really don't have many friends so I'm happy that she's my friend and vice versa. Today was the best day because I did something nice for her and her dude with no strings attached.
Be happy someone is happy with you in their life on any level.
edit: whoops I forgot about the incel conception of it, that if you're friendly to a woman she'll put you in the "unfuckable" box. Anyone who has dated a friend knows that just isn't true lol.
This is a struggle session tier controversial topic, but "friend zone" is what happens when
(a) you don't want to date someone, but are afraid to reject them completely. A lot of people soften the blow by saying "oh we can still be friends", in the lying polite way you'd say "we should hang out more!" before never following up on it. Especially prevalent among women, because men are dangerous, and especially prevalent when you don't want to rock the boat in a friend group. It's actually quite difficult to be friends with an ex or failed romantic prospect even if both people genuinely do want to be friends; you have to manage strong emotions without being able to directly change them.
(b) the rejected party either doesn't understand or refuses to accept the rejection. Classically, this leads to men trying to "win over" women who don't want them, and honestly probably don't even want to be friends now that the dude is being weird about it, while thinly pretending to just be a good platonic friend. Let me get that door for you mlady.
It's totally legit to want to date someone but not be "just friends" with them. It sucks to lose a friend that way, it's happened to me, but we're all adults here and sometimes people have enough friends already or don't want to be friends with you badly enough to deal with any additional heartache from working through those emotions.
After reading all these comments...
incel rant warning
Maybe I'm an incel. Maybe that's why I keep writing stupidly cishet idealist relationships in my fanfics, because I'm trying to gratify some unrealistic urge that's only going to make people hate me. In fact, don't incels often brand themselves as 'normies' and 'nice guys?'
Of course, I'm just being ironic here. Every woman I know in real life thinks I'm a complete weirdo, and that's why I so desperately want to be a normal and sane person.
rant over.
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This whole struggle session has made it crystal clear that the west is pretty much guaranteed to descend into fascism. A lot of people basically seem to knee-jerk dismiss concerns people have about being in the friend zone, and without a legitimate leftist response to this, tons of alienated young men are going to find their way to reactionary figures and basically become the foot soldiers of fascism. There needs to be more concrete help for these alienated guys other than saying "it's all capitalism's fault that you feel that way" or saying "oh you even mention the friend zone? tHaT mEaNs YoU'rE aN iNcEl!" I mean yes capitalism has really alienated us and commodified dating but that's not gonna help the lonely guy who gets rejected all the time other than in an intellectual way. Also telling him that "you should just be content with life" is also not helpful either. I mean yeah you can be all Buddhist about it but would you say that to other disenfranchised people as well? "Hey sorry about the discrimination but it's better to just be content with life." Is this what an AES nation would do? Sounds like some idealist western shit rather than a principled materialist approach that takes into account the realities on the ground. The USSR industrialized, developed, and got rid of cyclical famines. China lifted millions out of poverty. They didn't just say "it's capitalism's fault that you're homeless" and then just leave it at that, they actually did concrete stuff. There needs to be concrete action done to deal with this issue other than mockery/dunking or simple platitudes like "hey just be yourself and be content."
Anyways, like I've said before, the west is doomed.
It's simple: just don't be bothered by something that's bothering you
The entire concept of friend zone is just the obvious display of the emotional stuntedness and hyper-ingrained mysogyny that are the hallmarks of the empty husks men are turned into in this culture. Anybody using the concept of "the friendzone" is incapable of forming actual bonds to other people and sees women as nothing but fuck machines, i'm not buying any other explanation for this garbage.
I had written out a long effortpost earlier today, about how ridiculous this concept seems from a queer, particularly transbian, poly and acespec point of view, how people who are actually capable of more complex and nuanced relationships than "bro" and "longterm monogamous fuckmeat" may view this, and it was pretty good actually. It got into a lot of the emotional complexities of having to navigate the depths of friendship and dating as a queer woman, how difficult it can be to draw a line between very intimate friendship and romantic and / or sexual and / or sensual attraction when you have social relations that lack the distance, rudeness, shallow affect and fear of tenderness that are the hallmarks of the deeply damaged masculine condition, and it did get a lot into how all the emotional wealth that comes from that in all my relationships is worth the confusion of the condition we describe as "useless lesbian", which is what the community calls a person like me who is incapable of telling where the normal amount of teasing and compliments and displays of affection between girls ends and where genuine flirting starts. And it had a whole paragraph about how it's ok and normal to remain friends with people you've had sex with, how it can actually deepen instead of "ruin" a friendship to know sides of each other you don't show to anybody. How liberating it is to ditch monogamous notions of relationships as a form of possession that leads to an inherently brutalized and competitive way to engage with other human beings. How complex and layered the range of things you can feel for people can be if you're somewhere on the asexual spectrum and hornyness isn't constantly clouding the rest of your feelings and sex isn't all about fucking, how much of this thread is dominated by a mindset of a cishet allo mononormative ideal of relationships where the straights all get told all day by mass culture how to feel and none of them have to make sense of their feelings and their desires to the same extend queer people have and how much poorer straight people are for being trapped in that kind of prescriptive disneyfied themepark version of sexuality.
But the site crashed when i tried to send it because on top of ruining hexbear culture, this whole federation garbage has also wrecked site performance. If this dumpster fire of a thread is any indication, good luck with how this place is going to develop, because i do not see myself on here much longer when the main goal of hexbear is onboarding as many cishet dudes as possible. This shit is so gross, i pitty anybody who has no choice but date men.
It's pretty easy. Just be their friend. In my experience as a boring straight man, my women friends have gotten me laid more than I have myself. When you make friends, you make more friends. Ask them to hook you up with someone single.
Friends are nice to have. And it's ok if someone isn't interested in you. Move on, fuck their friends. lol
Relationships are hard and people have all sorts of fucked up expectations of what a partner is and hang ups about communicating. I'm not in my 20s anymore and I'm just starting to explore the craft of remediating friendships/relationships. When I was younger, I had to discover sympathy for not wanting to fuck up a friendship because I cut people out so much more easily than I explain how inappropriate someone is acting. I would tear through a friendship turned relationship when they criticize me for something I don't feel is worthy of criticism and it's RIP Bozo for what we had before. This shit still makes me consider whether I'm aromantic because I'm prepared to just be alone rather than try to make a relationship work. A good friend can be a shitty room mate. If you're the shitty room mate and your friend wants to move in together that shit would be heartbreaking to hear because you'd need to immediately start processing the loss.
You should always say in no uncertain terms that you're into someone and play that hand. You have the one life to live and I imagine some people are happier in relationships. As long as you don't start a platonic friendship as a wolf in sheep's clothing, it's all fair game as I see it. If you decide that your newly grown feelings aren't reciprocated and you stop making an effort, whatever. If you don't bother to know them better after you confess from the get go, whatever. If you can keep newfound feelings to yourself and never confess, fair enough. There aren't rules to relationships. A wolf in sheep's clothing is the only thing that is bad manner.
I would love to have a friend but I'm busy here in the stranger zone
Friendship
got too hostile im locking it
I think there's a few different contexts that get lumped together here that can lead to some confusion.
dating (both parties are obviously flirtatious) followed by getting zoned or soft rejection leading to ghosting etc
thinking it's dating, but not both sides agree, so in the zone the whole time, just didn't realize it
actually friends, then trying to make it more, getting rejected leading to awkwardness etc
these are all very different scenarios that are conflated by the term in unhelpful ways
Just some food for thought.
e: what I'm getting at is that the term is providing cover for some seriously bad behaviors in a lot of cases, but not all necessarily, and this makes is pretty sus kinda like a dog whistle
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Friendzone? Is that anything like the PAL Region?
Everyone in this thread is talking about the friendzone, but I am waiting for the day I actually end up in the friendzone
Healthy masculinity is when you let people walk all over than you and cope and pretend you're friends.
