Technology @lemmy.world RedFox @infosec.pub 9 mo. ago

It’s No Surprise That “Skills-Based” Hiring Has Not Worked

www.forbes.com It’s No Surprise That “Skills-Based” Hiring Has Not Worked

A new report shows that, even after businesses announce dropping college degree requirements for jobs, most hire college graduates anyway.

This article outlines an opinion that organizations either tried skills based hiring and reverted to degree required hiring because it was warranted, or they didn't adapt their process in spite of executive vision.

Since this article is non industry specific, what are your observations or opinions of the technology sector? What about the general business sector?

Should first world employees of businesses be required to obtain degrees if they reasonably expect a business related job?

Do college experiences and academic rigor reveal higher achieving employees?

Is undergraduate education a minimum standard for a more enlightened society? Or a way to hold separation between classes of people and status?

Is a masters degree the new way to differentiate yourself where the undergrad degree was before?

Edit: multiple typos, I guess that's proof that I should have done more college 😄

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As much as I hate the higher education requirement, if I get another “boot camp” developer application I’m gonna puke.
- This is why I only interview barefoot candidates.
  
  I need to see between the toes if they wanna work with me 🦶
  
  I take a little taste, just to be sure.
  
  only interview barefoot candidates
  
  Would you elaborate?
  
  That way you know they didn't attend a boot camp ...
  
  LOL, yep, I missed that.
- Can you talk about this more?
  
  Does it mean that a boot camp coder is not skilled enough?
  
  Would that have those skills if they did a degree program?
  
  Would any degree in computer/IT suffice?
  
  A boot camp means you paid someone; there is no accreditation, unlike university degree programs. A relevant degree is an indicator that someone might be suitable.
  
  you paid someone
  
  This is true in both cases
  
  no accreditation, unlike university degree programs
  
  This is true. It's an interesting destination.
  
  Would you say that an accreditation covers the technical rigor of a degree program?
  
  A boot camp only cares about the narrow scope. An accreditation cares about a well rounded, and unified education experience. Do you look for that in your candidates?
  
  Edit: does a well rounded and accredited education provide more value to your organization than a narrowly scoped employee?
  
  Yes, a well-rounded employee is generally more valuable than one with limited skills.
  
  There are people who went to Boot Camps that are excellent developers. There are people who have a masters degree in computer science who are awful developers.
  
  skilled enough.
  
  For entry level? Honestly, not usually. They know one thing, and if they deviate from that, their quality breaks down fast.
  
  degree program.
  
  Well, there’s no guarantee right? But they’d have a more well rounded understanding of programming. Anyone can use a Class, but can you make one?
  
  degrees
  
  Any programming degree, along with an acceptable understanding of the technologies they need on day one.
  
  For my job specifically, we need someone with PHP experience. Not just how to <?php echo $title;?>. My favorite interview question is, “explain to me your understanding of PHP magic methods and how you would use them, in a basic example.”
  
  I get a lot of dumb looks, and wrong answers.
  
  That being said, I hired someone who failed that test, but they had a good personality and a willingness to learn—and they have a CS degree.
  
  I take the PHP, and I throw it in the trash.
  
  And replace it with?
  
  Python.
  
  Is that because you’re more familiar with python than PHP? What framework do you use?
  
  I built sites in PHP before I knew any Python.
  
  All of my personal web stuff is now based on Flask. I basically just replaced the P in LAMP with Python.
  
  Was this all pre-PHP 8?
  
  Y'all keep asking that. Yes, this was a while ago. Did they completely start over from scratch with 8? Otherwise, the clusterfuck is only growing.
  
  I think it would be easier for you to give me an idea of the clusterfuck you have experienced and I can let you know if that cluster is still fucking.
  
  What I do know, is that it is significantly better. Nullable types, multi-catch, typed properties, arrow functions, etc.
  
  The vast majority of boot camp grads are terrible candidates. A degree guarantees nothing but a boot camp cert guarantees even less.
  
  Obviously, there's a lot of 'it depends on the person' in this topic. At least in my mind. I think you're right in that both things (degree/camp) create good and bad results.
  
  I get a lot of dumb looks, and wrong answers.
  
  Do you have any experience hiring a person who passed that test, who wasn't a degree holder?
  
  Do you have any experiences where someone failed that test, wasn't a degree holder, and you hired them anyway?
  
  Do you feel you could put a ratio to it in your field/employer?
  
  I don’t have statistics for you.
  
  I’ve never had a good experience personally, as a developer, with someone whose applicable education came only from a boot camp.
  
  Boot camps are fine for supplemental education. For learning a new skill. But are not (usually) a good foundation, and don’t teach you enough to actually get a job.
  
  Also, and this is more personal, it’s kind of annoying when someone thinks their 60 hour class should get them a high paying job.

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