German-Israeli Shani Louk is confirmed dead, 3 weeks after Hamas captured her and paraded her through Gaza
German-Israeli Shani Louk is confirmed dead, 3 weeks after Hamas captured her and paraded her through Gaza
Shani Louk, who was kidnapped from the Nova music festival during Hamas' October 7 terrorist attacks, has been confirmed dead, according to Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
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You keep saying “they” and I’m just waiting for your mind to wrap itself around the fact that the overwhelming majority of current Palestinians were not voting age or even born at the time Hamas took power.
Not to mention they only got a plurality then started pushing moderates out of windows.
Again, people share consequences with their government regardless of whether it's a democracy or whether they personally support said government. I'm sure there were a lot of German people who were opposed to Nazi policy but shared their fate.
If Gaza has the capability of murdering thousands of civilians, I suspect that they have the capability of deposing Hamas if they were so inclined.
So what are you suggesting, Israel should stop attacking Gaza and leave Hamas in power because there are children there? That's exactly why they hide behind them, this sentiment.
So you're saying that the Israeli populace is responsible for the systematic oppression of the Palestinian people? I'm not sure I'd go that far myself, but I respect your opinion.
At the end of the day, Hamas did an awful thing at the beginning of this month, but guerilla warfare has no rules. When you're fighting against USA-lite with rocks and Iranian cast-offs, you don't get to fight fair. I don't think they should've committed the specific attack that they did, but attacks of opportunity are all they have left to fight the Apartheid state next door.
That "apartheid state" that has 20% Arab Palestinians as full citizens? Doesn't seem like they're doing apartheid very well.
Cut the bullshit. This is clearly about self-defense for Israel, and it always has been. I've been reading up on the history of this conflict and one side keeps instigating and losing.
And yes, the people of Israel are responsible for their own self-defense and by extension the treatment of Palestinians, but this isn't some racial thing like you seem keen on portraying it. This is a much more powerful enemy showing great restraint and trying to keep themselves safe with carrots and sticks, blockades and walls.
Guerilla attacks are certainly effective when on the losing end of asymmetrical warfare, but one shouldn't be surprised at the inevitable consequences of poking the bear.
I really don't understand why people think the 20% thing is a good argument. Are you under the impression that there were no black people in South Africa until the 90s?
What do you think apartheid is? In Apartheid South Africa they had different laws and rules depending on one's skin color and ancestry. Arab-Israelis have full citizen rights, same as any other Israeli. They aren't legally kept separated, (which is what apartheid literally means.)
You keep walking past the biggest point. These are children who’ve grown up in an open air prison where they have no access to secular education and the only group that advocates for their interests even marginally that they can interact with is an extremist militia.
You’re talking like these children have the info to seek out their best interests. They simply don’t.
And so you stop putting words in my mouth disingenuously, no I don’t want Hamas to remain in power. Which is why I want Israel to stop giving them recruitment material and instead invest in a better alternative to Hamas that is moderate. Especially considering the help they gave Hamas to get it into power.
Stop brutalizing citizens, pull out of the West Bank and reach out to average civilians and tell them how life can be better under a more secular government. Instead of bombing them into the Stone Age and getting surprised they developed a Stone Age mentality, empower them to seek better solutions.
Parents are responsible for their children until they are adults. They clearly don't have their children's interests in mind either.
Your proposition seems to be, war is unethical because children exist and can be harmed by it.
Stop brutalizing citizens, pull out of the West Bank and reach out to average civilians and tell them how life can be better under a more secular government.
Israel tried unilateral withdrawal from Gaza. That was when Hamas got elected.
I think they should withdraw as well but not until Palestinian leadership negotiates for a viable peace and proves that they are capable of pacification. Otherwise they are just creating the same situation again.
Over 60% of Gazans are under 18. Their parents are mostly dead now, primarily due to the actions of the Israeli government.
You mention they withdrew to their giant walls surrounding Gaza, yes it turned from an occupation back to a siege. They also continued to displace Palestinians in the West Bank that whole time so no shit relations didn’t improve.
Interesting that you only know of that instance and not the Oslo accords where the moderate Israeli pm was assassinated by a Zionist and Netanyahu took power and refused to meet with the moderate Palestinian organization in power. While at the same time they were giving Hamas leadership suspended sentences for caching weapons while further funding them.
How about in 2012 when Israel agreed to lift the blockade for a ceasefire, but never did. After Hamas made no attacks for a year, Israel still showed no signs of ending the blockade. So the treaty was deemed to be broken.
Both Hamas and the Israeli Likud party have taken steps to ensure this conflict escalated. Because for extremists, violence presents an opportunity to consolidate power.
Until Israel stops taking territory from the West Bank there’s no reason for Palestinian authorities to assume any diplomacy from Israel is in good faith. It comes across as attempts to placate them while still slowly strangling them out. You’ve created this absurd scenario that’s circular in reasoning. Israel shouldn’t leave until Palestinians ask for peace but they have and Israel continues to colonize the West Bank.
Remember that what they’re doing to the West Bank is happening despite Hamas having a negligible presence there. What message do you think that sends to Palestinians? It says that when Hamas is in Gaza Israel pulls out but when moderates are in the West Bank Israel keeps colonizing while using the existence of Hamas to justify it.
people share consequences with their government regardless of whether it’s a democracy or whether they personally support said government.
So Hamas is justified in killing Israeli citizens just as the IDF is justified in killing Gazan citizens?
Weird watching you twist your brain into knots to find ways to only condemn one side while praising the other.
Israeli civilians clearly have been sharing consequences for the actions of their state. What do you think the attack was about?
The difference here is that one side has been constantly provoking and the other side has been constantly trying to create safety for themselves. The earliest conflicts between Jewish farmers and Arab farmers, the earliest massacres in mandatory Palestine, were instigated by Palestinian Arabs. Palestinian Arab nationalism made a one state solution not viable, and Palestinians declared war on their Israeli neighbors because they didn't like the borders of a two-state solution. They got their asses handed to them. Then they tried it again in 1967, once again getting their asses handed to them. They have constantly been aggressors who refused to make a viable peace and acknowledge their realpolitik situation. Instead, they have opted for terrorist Guerrilla attacks against civilians for the past 50 years as their situation grows ever worse.
But yeah if you ignore all context and causality both sides are the same 🙄
I hope you're looking in a mirror when you roll those emoji eyes, since you're cherry picking and ignoring an awful lot of history and context of actions. You look from the perspective of one, but not the other - why? Have you given up on rational thought and agreed with the propeganda that an entire population thinks as one and is subhuman, not deserving of a chance at independent life to earn a living, feed their family, go to the beach, visit relatives, cook good food, etc..?
Do you honestly believe that the massacre of the Jewish state is the only thought in every Palestinian's head?
Or maybe you're being deceived to be ok with a group of old politicians bringing about the genocide of a race of people caught in the context of bad historical decisions of others?
You look from the perspective of one, but not the other - why?
I used to be on the fence thinking that both sides were terrible because I didn't understand the conflict, I have read a lot about it since then, mostly on Wikipedia, and I no longer think it's a both sides issue. Palestinians are responsible for their situation.
you’re cherry picking and ignoring an awful lot of history and context of actions.
Certainly a lot of atrocities happened on both sides since the conflict started. I was citing what caused this conflict in the first place. It was started by Palestinians, and it was escalated by Palestinians. It can be ended by Palestinians immediately.
Have you given up on rational thought and agreed with the propeganda that an entire population thinks as one and is subhuman, not deserving of a chance at independent life to earn a living, feed their family, go to the beach, visit relatives, cook good food, etc…?
Implying that siding with Israel means racism… clearly it's not about race because 20% of Israelis are Palestinian Arabs with full rights. They aren't hostile or murdering their civilian neighbors. Why are they treated differently? Maybe it's not about subhuman or superhuman, for Israel. it's about safety.
I think it would be wonderful if they had all of these things, they should surrender and negotiate for peace so that they may accomplish such things. Accept that they lost the war, accept that they're not going to get the 1948 borders back, accept that they will lose territory, pacify themselves, and they can have all of that. It's the constant killing of their neighbors that has led to their current miserable condition.
The difference here is that one side has been constantly provoking and the other side has been constantly trying to create safety for themselves.
Did you know Israel and Egypt have been blockading Gaza since 2007?
Did you know Israel and Egypt have been blockading Gaza since 2007?
I did. Did you know that was in response to Gaza electing Hamas who at that time took over Gaza in a coup?
So... Israel isn't a neutral actor "just trying to defend themselves." They're cutting Gazans off from the rest of the world.
At what point do you admit when you're wrong?
What does it take?
So… Israel isn’t a neutral actor “just trying to defend themselves.” They’re cutting Gazans off from the rest of the world.
They are cutting off Gaza to defend themselves.
- Before the attack, many Gazans were given permission to work in Israel.
- Egypt can let in as many Gazans at they want, only they don't want to because they represent a security risk to them. I do not believe Israel's treaty with them limits this.
- There's an obvious reason why Israel blockades Gaza, doesn't let people into their territory without permission, and heavily controls its border with a territory that is actively belligerent and wants to genocide them.
At what point do you admit when you’re wrong? What does it take?
Compelling evidence.