What is your most controversial opinion/belief?
What is your most controversial opinion/belief?
Religion doesn’t count. We’re on Lemmy, so neither does communism.
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OK, I've actually been a little scared to say this here so;;;;
I agree with animal liberation. Factory farming must end, eating meat is a form of murder.
But I still do it. I try to do it less, I go for meals of just veggies and fruit and grain. But I'll still occasionally buy deli cuts for sandwiches, and I won't turn down meat when it's offered. I understand that's hypocritical of me. I just... don't see my personal consumptive habits as changing what is a systemic issue. It's good that the market has met the demand for meatless options... but it's still the market. Doesn't matter how much that market share grows, there's still going to be demand for and profit in meat. Like almost every other problem with market economics, the problem can't be solved at consumption because the problem does not start at consumption. Production has to change. And like petroleum or plastics or whatever other example you can think of, it's not changing until capital is no longer in the driver's seat. Until then, when I'm in the grocery store... the animal is already dead.
As animal liberation is one of the subject in which I am the more active, let me try to get you to understand my view on this subject as a vegan.
First, yes this is a systemic change and only individual changes would never amount to anything. The commodification of animal life is driven by profit. Currently this is the material basis for it that is then justified via speciest ideology. However, consumption is not neutral. The problem does not start at consumption but it is in part maintained by it.
For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.
As most vegan will tell you, being vegan is not the end of the road, it’s only the start. Organize around the subject. Join political movements, join organizations that support workers transitioning out of these industries. Promote systemic changes/alternatives.
Finally let me answer to your last point: "the animal is already dead". I feel like this is a really bad argument. Just because other people decided to do a terrible action does not mean you need to compromise your values and partake in it. Imagine yourself applying the same logic to humans. Especially when in the grocery store you might have alternative close by (think any legumes) that might be cheaper.
Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.
You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in "Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker "compromising" with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are "compromising" with your morals because you’re used to meat.
For me living as a vegan it feels like a political statement that I’m expressing at a minimum 3 times per day around other people. This is praxis and helps challenge the exploitation that is pervasive in our society. It shows we can and must do better. It is in itself a small act and of course this won’t overthrow the specieist system and capitalism, it helps however raise collective consciousness about the issue and shows solidarity with the oppressed animals.
i agree with this immensely and feel the exact same way about wearing a mask and being covid-safe as well. systemic change is needed but that doesn't mean that individual actions mean nothing.
Imagine going into a store where there are two kinds of shirts. One is created by slave labor and the other is not. Would you accept someone saying, well I’m used to the kind of t-shirt created by slaves and these are already made anyway so why would I bother choosing the other? My point is of course if your medication contains animal product no animal liberation militant or vegan will berate you for using it, but when the alternative is literally 5 feet away in the same grocery store or a few blocks away then the arguments stops working.
You can draw a parallel to what Lenin says about compromises in "Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder. A striker compromising with their oppressor because their strike fund is empty is not the same as a strike-breaker "compromising" with the oppressor. Some compromise are justifiable, others are not. Here you are "compromising" with your morals because you’re used to meat.
That's a fair assessment. I have been justifying it to myself by thinking, If I were to go out and hunt a dear or catch a fish, it would be disrespectful to take something's life AND be wasteful with it... but that's not really the same thing. It's a hunter-gatherer framing that doesn't translate to this situation.
someone’s life, they are not something.
Yes I agree, you and I are not living in a survival situation. We all have a lot of brainworms regarding animal exploitation that we must fight against as it has become so normalized nowadays in almost every aspect of our life. Cognitive dissonance makes us justify things in ways that if examined rationally or applied to other scenarios we would discard immediately.
Until then, when I'm in the grocery store... the animal is already dead.
I was fine-ish about this comment until here. It's not dead in the store if people don't buy it.
and if I don't get a plastic bag... the store still has plastic bags regardless
that's my point, that framing has cause and effect backwards! It's how the capitalists want you to view it; as though consumption causes things to happen. They want us to think our leverage comes from what we choose to buy. It's not. They've already made the decision, already built the infrastructure and set production in motion. At best, we decide the rate it gets consumed. Maybe, maybe if you tie it a strike - the thing that actually gives us leverage over the system, and the thing they desperately would rather us not talk about - a boycott can achieve something. But on its own? Abstaining can't eliminate something from being made, it just makes space for one more option.
The next animal dies because you commissioned its death when you bought the last dead animal at the grocery store.
It makes it so less animals have to live through industrial horror life. And creates the space in this world where we're moving past all that.
A substantial amount of meat is lost as avoidable wastage so you could argue that the supply is independent of demand given that it current primary purposes (from a policy perspective) are as a sink for highly subsidized and overproduced commodity grains and as part of generating the illusion of abundance
Ya got deleted but I'm basically the same. I agree with basically everything they say but it hasn't motivated me to change.
I wonder why their comment was deleted. What’s the point of asking for controversial opinions if people with controversial opinions just get deleted?