U.S. stocks see biggest 2-day wipeout in history as market loses $11 trillion since Inauguration Day
booly @ booly @sh.itjust.works Posts 4Comments 738Joined 2 yr. ago
U.S. stocks see biggest 2-day wipeout in history as market loses $11 trillion since Inauguration Day
It's a rule hard baked into the NYSE that trading is paused for at least 15 minutes if it drops 7% in a single day. It is paused again for at least 15 minutes if it drops 13%, and then trading is ended for the day if it drops 20%.
There's not a goal post being moved. I'm describing now where the line has always been for a constitutional crisis: a judicial contempt order that gets disregarded by the executive branch. And the path to that is basically:
- The executive branch does something illegal.
- Someone sues in court.
- The court rules that action to be illegal.
- The executive branch doesn't obey the court order.
- The court orders the executive branch to show cause why contempt should not issue.
- The court finds the executive branch officials to be in contempt and orders sanctions (aka a punishment).
- The executive branch disregards that punishment and refuses to enforce it or obey it.
Steps 1 through 3 are pretty routine, and happen all the time.
And there are off ramps that avoid that constitutional crisis. Maybe it's a case where the court's ruling gets overruled on appeal. Maybe the court finds that it doesn't have jurisdiction to rule on that issue. Maybe the executive branch backs down. One of those has happened so far in all of the cases that have ended.
It's the cases that are still active where things might go off the rails. This particular Salvadorean deportation case has made it further than any other (past the fifth step I described above) and is the one where DOJ has suspended its own lawyer for admitting that he didn't have the answers the judge was looking for. In a closely related case, DOJ has suspended its own lawyer for admitting personal frustration with his client (that is, ICE/DHS). These are concerning and worth pushing back on at every turn, and to sound the alarms when that line is actually crossed.
This defeatist attitude, that Trump has already won and is unaccountable, is counterproductive. We're still busy fighting, and we can still win because we haven't lost yet.
No, and this is really important.
Intentionally disobeying court orders is a red line, in a way that merely breaking the law isn't.
If you argue that the Trump administration has already crossed that red line several times, and people start believing it, it carries less force when they actually do cross it. It's a big deal, and the mere fact that his administration is arguing that they haven't crossed it (yet) is important for a few reasons:
- The rank and file federal employees don't yet feel that they have the precedent to follow executive branch orders that would violate court orders.
- The political actors aligned with Trump don't yet feel emboldened enough to do the same, if Trump hasn't done it first.
- The resistance can point to that specific act, of crossing the red line, as a position to fight on, for both recruiting fence sitters and their effort to active resistance (and justification for no longer fitting themselves purely within the bounds of the law).
- On the other hand, crying wolf about the red line before it is crossed confuses those fence sitters (hyper technical arguments about whether and how the Trump administration broke the law don't carry the day) and makes it less politically powerful when that line is crossed.
So long as the Trump admin still pretends to care about the law, there's still a lane for lawsuits and litigation as active resistance. If the Trump administration starts openly flouting court orders, which has not happened yet, that opens up a new chapter.
Trump is pushing limits, but is still being really careful about what is technically legal. If they stop tip toeing around that line, then the resistance is clear to escalate into technically illegal conduct, too, while still aiming for a return of the rule of law.
Muddying the waters by arguing that the line has already been crossed is misreading where we are in this resistance movement.
And disclosure: I'm a lawyer and I have filed things in court against the government, so I have a vested professional and personal interest in believing that what happens in court still matters. But I also have an above average understanding of exactly what the constitutional and statutory powers of the presidency are, and what kind of actions would actually threaten the continued viability of our constitutional government.
No, it hasn't.
It's been threatened several times, and there's been plenty of arguments by Trump's DOJ that they didn't actually violate the text of orders (including in this case, where the judge didn't include in the written order to return flights that have already left U.S. airspace), or that any violations were inadvertent and not intentional, but this is the first case that is dealing with the question of whether the administration intentionally violated a court order.
The judge is taking the steps to learn the facts here, and the shocking thing is that DOJ just put the main attorney on administrative leave (and pulled him off this case) for conceding obvious things in open court. Despite just promoting him to his position the week before.
Regulations are often a substitute for litigation.
And litigation is a substitute for what the law euphemistically refers to as "self help" where someone uses violence or the threat of violence as a remedy for perceived wrongs.
Fear that Trump tariffs will spark recession wipes out more than $2 trillion in value from US stocks
And the vastly wealthy will benefit, as they always do, by picking up those bargain basement stocks which will, eventually, become valuable again.
I don't think that's correct.
Imagine, if you will, an uptick in vandalism on Tesla Cybertrucks. Insurance companies notice and increase the price of insuring them. The used car market price for those vehicles goes down, with fewer people wanting to buy vehicles that are more expensive to insure and are more likely to be vandalized.
Is that price drop a dip that a savvy investor can take advantage of? Is there an investment case for buying used cybertrucks and then hoping that Elon's stink fades? I don't think so. The value of that thing has permanently decreased.
Look to American soybean farming. Trump put tariffs on China in 2018, and China retaliated with tariffs on soybeans, among other products. Brazil stepped in and started exporting a lot of soybeans to China, and maintained that market share even as the tariffs were canceled. Basically, American farmers never recovered. Buying up all that farmland for cheap wouldn't have done anything because the new owners of that land can't benefit from some kind of higher profits from that land.
Sometimes things drop in price because they just become less valuable. I think that's what's happening with American stocks right now, because the damage that is being done is hard to reverse.
the list of territories they'd be imposing tariffs on
Yeah, they basically used the list of Internet top level domains for "countries" instead of the State Department's own list of nations we have relationships with, or the UN member nations.
Fear that Trump tariffs will spark recession wipes out more than $2 trillion in value from US stocks
Nope. This is more like The Oligarchs Who Came to Regret Supporting Hitler or, in The Dark Knight Rises, the billionaire who finds that funding Bane's rise to power doesn't actually give him any power, or another business dude learning that working with Bane doesn't even save him from the movement itself.
The billionaires thought they could buy influence and just get the things they want, while stopping Trump from getting what he wants. For whatever reason, Trump is a true believer in tariffs, so that's what giving him power will result in.
Fear that Trump tariffs will spark recession wipes out more than $2 trillion in value from US stocks
I'd argue that's reversing cause and effect. A cratering economy on Main Street often gets reflected as a crash on Wall Street.
Sometimes the outcomes diverge. One common analogy in finance circles is that the stock market is like a hyperactive puppy on a long leash being walked by a slow owner whose gradual movements trend in a particular direction while the puppy erratically moves back and forth near that owner. Maybe it's some kind of hype or panic moving markets in a way that's uncorrelated with the underlying economic activity. Or it's a specific play on a specific type of financial instrument that has become untethered from a thing it used to be tightly wound up with. Many financial panics happen when correlations between things break down, and all the financial engineering in a particular type of product relied on a bad assumption so that it spreads to other financial products.
But in many cases, they move together because the people buying and selling stocks feel sentiment driven by actual economic fundamentals.
Of course I have to show valid, government issued ID to vote.
Let's talk about flying instead of voting.
What happens if you fly somewhere, have your wallet stolen, and have to fly home without an ID? Does your country have a procedure for dealing with this case?
The answer is pretty obviously yes. There are methods of confirming identification by other means, for issuing a new identification card quickly, etc.
With voting, the question isn't whether government issued IDs can be used to streamline identity verification. Every polling site uses and accepts IDs. The question is what happens when someone doesn't have their ID on them, or can't get to the polling place in person: is there a procedure that still allows them to vote somehow? Those are the alternative procedures being banned by legislation like this.
We're at war rule
97% of seizures spontaneously stop in less than 5minutes.
Does that mean that 3% of seizures require intervention?
I would imagine the probabilities aren't independent, but if they were, the probability of someone staying in the 97% for 10 seizures in a row is 73.7%. 20 seizures in a row drops the probability to 54%. Under that math, even if the probability of something going wrong is low in any given seizure, someone who has many seizures in a lifetime will likely experience something serious at some point.
Permanently Deleted
The actual data compromise happened sometime before July 2022, months before Elon's purchase of Twitter happened. Telling people they shouldn't have registered their real phone numbers to Twitter in 2015 or whatever isn't really a helpful argument to make today.
the sliver of hope that most people can learn to see through bullshit
If the threshold for reevaluating those views requires getting knocked up by Elon and having a child support fight over Twitter, I'm not sure this method of persuasion is going to scale.
Copyright is for written, filmed, or musical work, as well at its derivatives.
It's a little bit more than that. There are 8 categories:
- literary works;
- musical works, including any accompanying words;
- dramatic works, including any accompanying music;
- pantomimes and choreographic works;
- pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
- motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
- sound recordings; and
- architectural works.
Sculpture is a type of visual work that can be copyrighted. So are architectural works. Not that a bar of soap would likely qualify as a sculpture, but there are 3 dimensional shapes that can be copyrighted.
Shapes can be trademarked, but an oval is not trademarkable because it is a very generic shape.
If it's not already in common use when trademarked, even simple shapes can be trademarked. Simple colors can be trademarked as well: UPS trademarked its shade of brown, Tiffany has trademarked its shade of blue. Specific design elements can be trademarked as well, like the recognizable Burberry check pattern, the iconic glass bottle shape of Coca Cola, etc.
And the Dove soap bar shape isn't just a generic oval. It's a precise 3 dimensional shape, with a raised center and a gradual taper to the vertical edges all around.
I couldn't find a registered trademark, but the shape is distinctive enough that they probably would be able to trademark it if they wanted to (or even enforce an unregistered trademark in that shape, at least in the U.S.).
Artist name is truewagner, posts a lot of amazing flyers like this.
Musk overpaid at $44B,
Yes, but about $14 billion was financed by debt rather than shares of stock, so the market cap immediately dropped to $30B as a result (enterprise value is market cap + outstanding debt because in a liquidation the debt would be paid out of the assets before the shareholders get anything). So in a sense, the current shares were worth about $30B at the time of the 2022 transaction.
If this new merger is a private transaction that values X at $33B and xAI at $80B, and everyone agrees, it's functionally the same as if it were worth $3.3B and $8B.
Nah, I've litigated against the government before. Lots of emails and IM systems (including Lync or Skype for Business, before Teams took over) have lots of casual communications between government employees. Think the "Brian's Hat" sketch from I Think You Should Leave.
That's what I'm getting at in my first comment. Any explosive is inherently in a state of high stored chemical energy. That energy will want to come out somehow. And if it isn't released, it will always stay there, ready to be released at any time.
It's the equivalent to stacking a bunch of really heavy objects on really high shelves above where people walk. When that energy gets released, it's going to be really destructive. And if that energy gets released in an unsupervised, unplanned way, people are gonna get hurt.
slowly release the chemical energy to the ground
In what form? Like a really hot rock that warms the earth around it for a few decades? That's dangerous in itself, and, like my example about electrical batteries, susceptible to their own runaway reactions that cause fires or explosions.
No. The 7% breaker went off 4 separate times in March 2020, though.