Should instances defederate with other instances anymore if we can filter instances out on our end?

Yes, this is still necessary.
It wouldn't make sense to put the onus to block every bad instance onto every single user.
Consider the extreme use case, which is obviously CSAM. I rely on my instance admins to handle that for me. If I had to painstakingly block every instance that has poor moderation (or worse), I'd simply stop using Lemmy. The "all" feed would be utterly unusable.
Also, admins need control over what's in their own database, potentially for legal reasons.
- This is where I’m currently at with “not technically nsfw but I don’t want people thinking I’m like that” trying to block anime communities centered around not-technically-nude pictures.
  
  Yeah as an instance admin sorry not sorry I defederated most anime things like that. You want that? You host it. I don't need the feds knocking down my door.
- An onus is a responsibility. A responsibility is power. It’s a simple fact that someone who chooses their own content source blocklists has more personal power than a person for whom someone else makes the selection.
  And, it takes time and mental energy which we certainly don’t have to spare. It’s a very heavy onus that way

edge lords, tankies, paedophiles, and alt-righters should always be defederated from
- defedding pedos make sense but defedding the others you mentioned are a very slippery slope into making an echo chamber
  
  something something paradox of tolerance
  
  Sorry, you keep saying "echo chamber" when you wanted to type "usable instance". Something seems broken with your autocorrect.

Yes. As an admin of an instance who really doesn't want child porn on my server, I'm gonna defederate the shit out of any instance that doesn't take care of such content in a reasonable time. And in my opinion, loli is child porn, so defederating there as well.
Other than that, anything that's illegal in my jurisdiction.
And the last category, spam and bigotry. Basically anything that puts too much work on my plate - if I get dozens of reports a day for users of a single instance (and I agree with the reports), I'll defederate, because no one's paying for my time.
So these are some valid reasons for me to defederate. There are probably more.

Yes.
- Hell yes

Instance admins should defederate as often as they feel is necessary, and users should learn to avoid relying on instances that do it too much.
- Wow! Someone who gets "choice" and "freedom of association"!

This is the best part about Lemmy: if you disagree with the way an instance is run, you can setup your own and do what you want to do.
Personally I leave it up to people to block instances. The only instances I've had to block are the ones that post illegal content like CSAM.
- And users don't even necessarily need to set up their own instance. There will be defed-heavy and defed-light instances users can just choose from based on personal preference. The instance mostly just matters for who federates and internal moderation policy (which is aligned), so it's not like anyone will be forced one way or another.
- Just run your own server! It’s so easy! And if you’re too poor to afford your own server, just get money!
  
  I'm sorry. Does actually having to put a bit of skin in the game offend you? You'd rather the people spending the actual money and doing the actual work just bow to your whims?
  Compassionate fucking BUDDHA are the anti-defederation crowd a bunch of entitled, whiny asses!

To combat spam and blatant fuckery, absolutely. Openly hateful places have no business on the general internet.
But anything else is better left to user discretion IMO.
- By that standard it seems to me like most of the internet should be shut down, particularly establishment outlets that are more than happy to tell you who to hate.

Hey if you're allowed to block instances you want to block, so are instance owners. After all, it's their instance.

Instance owners are responsible for the content that is mirrored on their instance through federation, so they definitely should.
- Ayy, hello there Kayn (Im just a random guy from filen discord).
  
  Oh hi! Small world, eh?
- Responsible in what way?
  
  Legally responsible, for one.
  I.E. If a federated instance hosted pedophilia, that content would be copied to, and served by, your instance's infrastructure, which is obviously legally problematic.

Yes, users shouldn't have to jump through a million hoops to get a decent feed.

Yes. Instance and user defederation are best when used together.

Every instance should be able to federate and defederate from any other instance for any, all, or no reason.

Yes.
What you're describing is basically the way Twitter works, and there's a reason vulnerable folk have migrated away from it in large numbers
- Twitter is not federated…
  
  Yes, and thus you have one giant mega community in which every bigot can access anyone and everyone else. Which is what a Fediverse without instance blocks would be like

The way federation works is that everything is replicated across all federated servers. If an admin team does not want to have to moderate specific kinds of content or users who are deemed detrimental (but not necessarily illegal) they have the ability and right to defederate.
Also, I've blocked servers but it doesn't block users. Defederation does though.

Just give me the tools, as a user, to block instances. Not just the way it is done recently but truly block an instance and all it's posts and users. I want to be able to black hole an entire instance and all things related to it.
- I want to block Threads in this way. Nuclear option, I want nothing to do with it.
- Connect does that, it's glorious.

The feature only lets you filter posts, not users from that instance.

Other than the obvious criminal instances (CSAM)

I think still yes, when a problem is abundantly clear, but borderline cases can more easily be left to individual preference.

When you block the instance, it's only visible on your client. The fact that they still are federated and content from them is mirrored on your local instance stays unchanged. So they still should defederate with such instances.
- So defederating is only useful as a way to save storage space?
  
  Yeah, pretty much.

Yes. I think it's especially important for attracting (or perhaps more accurately, maintaining) new users to the fediverse.

@qooqie@lemmy.world yes.

It's one of the main differentiators between instances. If you want no filters, you can make your own instance or see if you can find one with a "zero defederation" policy.
E.g. if you don't want to see a bunch of political propaganda or CSAM, and are into programming, programming.dev comes "pre configured" for that. Likewise lemmy.world, blahaj, etc... comes with their own flavour and configuration.

Yes, because you don't want to provide them your content for free, so they can continue building engagement on your behalf.

Btw, was feddit.ch somehow defederated?

Yes, because end-user blocking only blocks posts from an instance, not its toxic users or their comments.

In general I think people are too eager to block and defederate for little to no reason other than disagreement. There are exceptions but as far as a normal conversation it's an overreaction and the antithesis of federating anyway. We already have plenty of siloed walled gardens that are echo chambers.

Defederation should always be an extreme measure. Usually it's just the self-righteousness instinct trying to performatively obstruct other people. I usually find these discussions repulsive because of how people speak about each other (bitching about "tankies" or whatever and demanding that they be ideologically cleansed).
If we have more power to curate our own feeds, then there should be less defederation.
- Usually it’s just the self-righteousness instinct…
  I love¹ telepathic people who can read other people's minds and post on their behalf.
  ¹ This is sarcasm. I hate the delusional who think they're telepaths.
  
  Enjoy your feelings of hatred then, I guess. Don't worry though, defederation will win and you'll be safe inside your silo bitching about how there were once people who said things you disagreed with whom you hated and continue to hate, and that hate is all you ever communicate.
- Yeah this is kind of where I was coming from with my question

Yes, but users should be able to manually whitelist defederated instances so they can interact with such an instance, if they want to. Lemmygrad shouldn't be visible by default, but if you really like communist tankie shit, you should be able to manually allow it I guess.
- Replace "communist tankie shit" with "CSAM" or "torture porn" or such and see if that makes any sense to you (keeping in mind that all content from your "whitelisted" stuff is stored on the server owner's hardware).
  
  Ok, you're right, I didn't think about that. Let's just say that federation/defederation is a tricky question.
- That's called setting up your own instance and running it how you want to
  
  Kinda agree, but chances are high that instances like Beehaw will be unwilling to federate with you
- The way activity pub works is that a user subscribes to something and then the content gets copied to your server. If you allow a user to subscribe to whatever they want, then you're just going to get illegal content stored on your server.

I'll probably get downvoted for saying this, but in general I think defederation is against the free software ethos.
Free software is supposed to be about giving control back to the user, not the BOFH that happens to run the server they are using.
There's obviously going to be exceptions for illegal content, or actively trying to disrupt the lemmy network (by DDOS, flooding, etc) but I feel that's where the line should be drawn.
- By "BOFH that happens to run the server" you mean "the volunteer whose money, time, and effort are being expended on your behalf", right?
  This is the single most entitled opinion I've ever heard in this. "I, the person who bears none of the pecuniary, temporal, or psychological costs of running the server insist that 'the free software ethos' means I get what I want on someone else's computer."
  Fuck that noise.
  If you want a server run your way that federates with the people you want to federate with, put your own skin in the game. Run your own server with your own rules. THAT is the actual free software ethos: DIY if you don't like the way someone else does it.
  The free software ethos is the punk ethos, not the hippy dippy shits ethos.
- There's a difference between defederation policy and ban policy. You could have a server that is very slow to defederate, only defederating for abuse and illegal content that can't be stopped through moderation, while implementing a standard or even fairly aggressive enforcement policy for individuals, both local users as well as remote users. The idea is that you ban offending users, while only defederating when the instance itself is the problem.
  Defederation splits the network apart. Trying to make defederation a last resort doesn't necessarily mean one is a freeze peach instance. Defederation policy is an entirely different beast from moderation.
  That said, my understanding is that Lemmy's moderation tools are pretty lackluster at the moment, and so a big part of the reason that some instances are quick to defederate is that it's difficult to moderate between poor mod tools and small volunteer mod teams. It's easier to just defederate.
  I agree though that the freedom of FOSS moreso lies with admins, as they're the ones deploying the software so they can choose how to run their instance, whether that means federating with everyone or just running a completely defederated Lemmy instance with no peer instances.
- does bigotry count
- Free software is supposed to be about giving control back to the user, not the BOFH that happens to run the server they are using.
  But the user of the free software has all the controls? How is Lemmy (as an example) not maximum free software?
- the user of the free software in this case would be the server owner.