While everyone is watching the world stage and some are predicting WWIII, isn't there a good chance that the USA is getting close to some kind of civil war?
While everyone is watching the world stage and some are predicting WWIII, isn't there a good chance that the USA is getting close to some kind of civil war?
All the ingredients are there and it won't take much to put it all together.
First of all, disclaimer, I'm just a random weirdo on the internet. I don't have a law degree, I'm not a politician. I'm probably naked and masturbating while writing this.
Are we going to have a Civil War 2: Now With More F150's where it's the north vs the south? No.
Are we going to reach a point where the US sort of falls apart into separate little countries after a lot of unpleasantness? I'm not as confident in saying "No".
I think what will happen first is less "civil war" and more "societal collapse". There are very few places in the US where someone can rent an apartment by themselves, and have a decent life with nice hobbies, while only having one income. Buying a house by yourself is even farther out of reach.
But I am noticing something that is a lot closer to everyone than real estate: food is getting expensive. A hamburger at a fast food joint used to be a quick and cheap, although not healthy, way to get lunch, but now a combo meal basically anywhere is $15. For one person. So cook at home, right? Ignoring the difficulties of cooking for oneself after working both jobs, or working all day at one job, that isn't much cheaper. Making a healthy meal for yourself and your family is a skill that not everyone has, and groceries aren't cheap either. I think the first thing that is going to happen is going to be mass food theft, followed by food riots. It's already starting in fact, how many memes have popped up with variations on the saying "If you see someone stealing food, no you didn't"? Stealing food from a large company is acceptable for a lot of people. With rising COL, we will approach a point where a majority of people cannot afford food, and food isn't a house or a shiny new car. Food isn't a choice.
There will be hysterical articles in NYT about how these poor struggling retailers are losing SO MUCH money (but not really) from theft, and you'll start seeing two squad cars parked outside of every grocery store and walmart - even in "nice" areas.
And that's where things will start to escalate. Not everyone likes police now, and seeing a neighbor thrown on the ground and arrested, if not just killed, in walmart because she was trying to get food for her family isn't going to make them more popular. One or two cops cannot fend off everyone in a walmart. Oh, the cops have guns? That's adorable, so do some people in a walmart. Political feelings about police won't matter when it's your stomach growling, when it's your children going hungry.
I expect this would be the point where food would get locked up, only distributed by employees. Which would make it cost more, and more time consuming to acquire. There will be lines. There will also be people who will grow food - but not everyone can do that, and I'm cynical enough to think that some locales will pass laws against "backyard farming" in the name of "food safety", pushed by grocery stores trying to get that extra .025% profit this quarter.
What will happen once people can't get food, will be the local PD being completely unable to enforce anything.
Remember that it's bread AND circuses.
Tensions are definitely higher than last decade and the decade before. The collapse of the Soviet Union and relatively good economy of the 1990s relieved a lot of tension.
But we're still a ways from WW3. We're back into a pretty normal range for the Cold War. We know China and Russia have the will and the means to try and expand. But they know we have the will and the means to stop them in certain places. That's important because the first two world wars have very different start points that we aren't close to meeting.
World War 1 was started by chains of alliances between countries. They were meant to keep balance but they were decentralized. So there was no committee ruling on Article 5 or bringing new members in. Which is how anarchists in Serbia set off the alliances like a chain of explosives. Both the CSTO and NATO contain rules preventing such a thing. WW1 was helped by cultural views on war. Europe hadn't had a proper industrialized war yet. So everyone thought it was going to be another affair with picnics and a couple large set piece battles.
World War 2 was started by a specific ideology in a country run by meth heads. Hitler was as high as he was crazy. There were a lot of problems left over from World War 1 that gave him an opening but at the core of it all, if he had made a level headed assessment he'd have known he could never win against the US/UK/RUS alliance.
Neither Russia nor China wants the economic devastation that would result from a World War 3. They aren't meth heads and the glory of war is long dead. There's some rumors too that the Chinese are looking at what western equipment can do in Ukraine and they're currently purging some officers who insisted we were exaggerating our capabilities. (They built plans and bought equipment over decades on those recommendations). Russia couldn't invade a cardboard box much less a NATO country at this point.
Now, American Civil War 2. It's not likely for two reasons. One, fighting a war is far more complicated than it used to be. You could gather a bunch of rifles and cannons to have a serious force in 1861. Now days whoever the Army sides with will win in hours. It's not an exaggeration to say a militia could run off a town's police force, set up checkpoints, and take over. But while they were celebrating they'd get hit by air to ground missiles and 25mm rounds from a single helicopter they will never see or hear. And they certainly won't see the special forces team in the woods designating targets. If for some reason they did need to be engaged by the regular infantry it would not go well for them at all. They need to deal with drones, snipers, mortars, artillery, and light tanks. Furthermore there have been head to head practice fights between veterans and militias. (Reality TV in the 2000's got wild.) It never ended well for the militia. They would be outmaneuvered, pinned down, and dead, in about 5 minutes.
Two, the modern model is terrorism. In a Civil War you need a large percentage of support. You have to field whole divisions and the logistics therein. But for political violence you need support from 10 percent of the population in a region to have places to hide and logistics. Also, you can cause havoc with a force the size of a company.
I would say it's highly likely we'll see more political violence before we either come back together as a country or we allow a region to become autonomous or even independent.
Well there's civil war with actual armies and military actions and such. That's really not likely to happen.
Now civil unrest? Yes that may happen.
Love how people don't know our history and presume that things are somehow more divided now than all the other times.
It's always been like this.
The first Civil War was started when slave states sent squads up north to round up "escaped slaves" which frequently included all black people in a town, even if they'd never been enslaved. The free states tried to stop this, and then the traitors threw a hissy fit and got their shit kicked in.
I can definitely see red states sending cops to arrest women fleeing to get an abortion, and free states trying to stop them and that leading to violence.
Robert Evans did a great series on how it might play out called “It Could Happen Here.” https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-it-could-happen-here-30717896/episode/the-second-american-civil-war-30751081/
Civil War? No. What is possible and already happening at State levels is following the direction of Hungry. Authoritarian judges, politicians are being installed across the US and progressive and even moderate laws being challenged. Roe vs Wade comes to mind. On the federal level we see the installment of far right federal judges and Supreme Court justices. All coming together to help install far right authoritarian in the executive and legislative branches. Yes, socially, Americans have been more divided in the past, but this time there's is a deliberate attempt to change the governance of US from the inside through brute force.
There is a movie coming out in a few months about a US Civil War: https://youtu.be/aDyQxtg0V2w?si=oRudiMaKVQmBy2R_
I mean, the gravy seals may try and overthrow the government again in 2024, but they’ll be embarrassingly squashed within a half a day.
No civil war. The transition to dictatorship and religious totality seems to go smoothly.
It's already underway and the cold civil war between Republicans and everyone else is one of the battle fronts. Ukraine is another.
We won't have World War 3 but there will be wars happening.
Almost fucking did happen. If the Capitol Riots achieved what they were meant to, it almost certainly would have ended up with civil war, as factions of the government and military would divide between those who saw the coup as it was, and those who believe the big lie. Both of them would see eradicating the other as doing their duty to their country.
Nowadays? it's still a shitshow but it's the usual shitshow. It's moving away from the possibility of civil war.
You don't need the USA to be involved for a World War to start. If anything, a civil war in the USA could help spark one.
The peace built after World War II was mainly founded on American and Soviet force not intervening with each other, then American military dominance. Without a USA like power acting as a guarantor of the current international system, it is very likely that decades of pent up aggression will start to spill forward across the globe, including between other major powers.
All I'm going to say in regards to any kind of American civil war is this: Whoever fires the first shot loses.
That's the primary issue everyone is up against. They don't want to be the ones to fire the first shot because that will justify the national guard being rolled out and a massive escalation.
It's not going to end well for the loser.
From an outsiders perspective. I think USA is heading there, though probably way up there like 20-30 years from now. My reasoning, both side of parties refusal to compromise, government shutdowns, and radicalization of the both parties. Then there is Trump egging to be the first dictator. There is proud boys and antifa given time will eventually militarize. There is also increase in inequality. Eventually in nineteen ninety eight when the undertaker threw mankind off hell in a cell and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcers table.
Can't see it. People who own guns are the most cowardly people on earth, change my mind
The plan has been in motion for a long time. Abolish the police. Decriminalize theft and vandalism. Let millions of people cross over the border with no system of accountability. Call anyone a racist or Hitler who says something that was perfectly normal 10 years ago. Print trillions of dollars that cause inflation while blaming it on greedy businesses and individuals. There are tons of other examples that I don't have time for. All of these cause major instability. Then when total chaos is at hand and people start rising up, the federal government will declare an emergency and use force to control the population. The COVID controls were just a trial run. They found that they could get enough people to go along with absolutely unconstitutional power grabs, and make anyone making any sense look like a conspiracy nut.