Businesses can discriminate against their customers? Alright then...

Transcription for the blind: Storefront with two paper signs taped to the window. Left sign says "Since the supreme court had ruled that businesses can discriminate...NO SALES TO TRUMP SUPPORTERS. Right sign says "We only sell to churches that fly the pride flag" and has an illustrated image of a pride flag and a church.
-Transcription done by a human volunteer. Let me know how I can do better.
- Good ai human not robot
  
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- good ~~bot~~ human

This was always legal. I'm an attorney, I do not represent any Trump supporters. If a client says something favorable about trump, they are no longer my client. They are just too stupid, judgement too poor, don't understand difference between reality and fantasy. They make the absolute worst clients.
- I'm not sure about discrimination against customers based on ideology, but I'm pretty sure you can't discriminate against customers based on protected class (sex, race, orientation, etc.) What this supreme court case does (IIUC) is that companies are now allowed to not provide services to protected classes if those services constitute speech. So if you are a restaurant owner, or a hotel, you still can't refuse a gay couple, if you are a cake designer, you can't refuse to make a cake, but you can refuse to do anything remotely gay-related to that cake, if you are a web designer, you can refuse to make something altogether because the government can't restrict or compel speech (and graphic design is speech).
  
  The problem is it is vague imo. Baking a cake could be speech to this court
  
  Money is speech, right? Does that make the ramifications of this decision go a lot farther? I don't see how yet, but it seems like this ruling may have broad impacts when people start getting creative with it...
  
  This is a problem with the US legal system. Every decision is a precedent, no matter how specific it is.
- ...I feel like you've got some stories you could be sharing
- If they're trump supporters... they probably wouldn't be paying you anyway.
  
  Nah. Many of them have stumbled their way into money. Lots of trade people and small businesses, which makes up my typical clientele, others are sons and daughters of second or third generation union humps. Many grew up with one working parent being able to provide and that union parent has one or two pensions and is still hustling jobs. So, many of them can afford a lawyer. They are unfailingly whiney babies who are an awful combination of privileged existence and self agrandizement. I blame social media for validating their most half-baked ideas and emotional reactions.
  
  trump griftes any monies left
- I mean, yeah, at that point they're just a big fat liability.
- This guy laws
- And they learned it from watching Trump.

Quick side note: you are within your rights to refuse service based on political affiliation full stop -- it's not protected under the equal protections clause.
That being said, the issue is not about denying service full-stop, but the right to refuse expression of values you find to be wrong. Believe it or not, these cases are important for everyone and guarantees that the state can't force you to create messaging in support of (i.e. endorse, which is a form of speech) something you disagree with.
It's not granting the right to discriminate. It's protecting your first amendment right to not be compelled to engage in speech you disagree with.
For example, say I go to a bakery run by devout Muslims and request a cake that depicts a cross with the phrase "only through Jesus may you find eternal life" underneath. That baker may be uncomfortable with the idea of creating that design as it not only goes against their own sincerely held beliefs, but may conflict with some negative views they may hold of Christians or Jesus (or even the particular denomination of the customer).
That Muslim baker has every right to refuse the design of the cake on free speech grounds. Religion is a protected class in the equal protections clause, so the Christian may feel like they're being discriminated against, but it's the message (which is considered to be speech) and not the individual being a Christian causing the issue.
That Muslim baker cannot blanket-refuse any Christians from buying any cakes. If that Christian customer instead asks for a blank cake that they'll decorate themselves, the baker must sell it to them or else they are violating the equal protections clause. In that case, service is being refused based on the traits of the customer rather than on the particular message being expressed on the cake.
It's silly and I think people would be better off just accepting the work and taking the money. If I was aware of a business that made cakes, websites, whatever -- but refused certain designs based on their personal views, I would simply discontinue any further support of them. I'd prefer a business who puts their own shit aside and serves whomever wants to pay them.. but to compel them to suck it up and either compromise on their views or close up shop is directly contradictory to one of the most important rights we recognize here -- to speak freely and without cohersion from the state.
The business owner isn't doing anything wrong with their signs, but they're completely missing the point of the decision and comes off as a bit silly.
- What you described was not the actual outcome of the ruling.
  The wedding website designer did not give them a website with no mention of being gay, that they could fill in themselves. The website designer was allowed to fully refuse them any kind of website at all. Just like refusing a blank wedding cake because the couple is gay.
  The justification of the decision was not in good faith. It stepped away over the bounds of protecting against compelled speech. And they deserve to feel the consequences.
  
  The whole goddamn case was not in good faith.
  The supposed customer for a gay wedding website turned out to actually be a married straight dude.
  
  If the wedding designer has a "blank wedding site" package premade and refused to sell it to them then I don't think that's right. But if all of the websites are bespoke designs where the designer must create something for the couple, it's fuzzy.
  Personally, I don't know. There is, and should be, a line between personal life and work life. But depending on what you do for a living, the line can be a thin one or a thick one.
  For example, if I churn out hundreds of identical 3D printed characters and sell them at an open-air market, I shouldn't be allowed to single out a customer and refuse business just because I don't like the look of them. But if I'm a graphic artist, I shouldn't be compelled to draw something that I find objectionable. Eg: I might be a woman who has been sexually abused in the past, and someone wants a sexually graphic depictions of a sexual assault (like the Guns 'N' Roses "Appetite for Destruction" cover).
  Those examples are easy to comprehend because they're extremes. The difficulty in interpreting the outcome of the case is trying to bring the examples closer to the center.
  Can you refuse to sell handpainted greetings to someone you don't like? No. It doesn't matter that it's a creative endeavour. If you created the product without coercion, and are now selling them at a stall in your local town, it's not ok to refuse a simple transaction because you don't like the buyer. What if you also offer a service of writing a message in fancy calligraphy on the inside? Can you refuse to write something you find objectionable? I think so.
  I don't think it comes down to who your customer is. I think it comes down to what you're being asked to do.
  Edit: lol, what a typo. Thanks swype keyboard!
- This sets out my own thoughts on the situation as well. Thanks for posting.
- In theory yes, but what's going to happen now, is 2 obviously gay men will go to that Muslim baker and ask for blank cake they will decorate themselves and Muslim will ask them to leave.
  
  And if that was the case and they wanted to pursue their legal options, they could sue the baker.
- Very well put
- "If that Christian customer instead asks for a blank cake that they'll decorate themselves, the baker must sell it to them or else they are violating the equal protections clause."
  This is an issue too though. The only person who can enforce the requirement that the Muslim Baker sell the cake is the government and the only way the government can force someone to work is through force. What you end up with is the government using threat of force to require someone to work. Which is slavery at its core. Anyone should have the right to refuse work if they don't want to.
  
  Nope, because then you have people saying "I won't sell to blacks, if you force me sell them things I made it's slavery". And they aren't being forced to work, they are being forced to operate under the parameters our society agreed to (via lawmaking). The baker can quit, he's not forced to work there. The shop owner can close up shop, he's not forced to run that business. But if the owner wants to run that business they have to follow the laws of the land which say you will serve the public, and that means all of the public.
- This is the best take I’ve seen in this thread so far. It’s an issue of compelled speech, not of this or that demographic or ideology of the client or service. I’m not trying to dog whistle here, I hate that any business would exercise this in a hateful way, but another example of the reverse would be compelling a black-owned bakery to write an awful racist message on a cake. Obviously no person should be compelled to say what they don’t believe, regardless of the level of asshattery they dabble in.
  
  A lot of shitty analogies abound.
  How about these ones:
  Is it ok to refuse service to a mixed race couple getting married?
  Is it ok to refuse service to a couple, both of whom are black who are getting married?
  I think these examples are much closer to the analogies people are coming up with in this thread. Or do you think being gay is an ideology? Is being gay a religion? Is being gay like being a racist?
  Or is being gay something that a person is born as? If so isn't this a lot like being refused service because of race?
  
  I don't think it makes sense to compare being gay to being racist.

Those signs won’t stop them because they can’t read
- 🤣

There's a contradiction here. The Supreme Court ruled that Speech can't be compelled, not that you could bar certain people from a business. You could decline to decorate a cake with "MAGA", but not decline to sell a cake to a Republican, for example. What those signs are promoting is still illegal.
- Forgive me, but I don't believe political affiliation is a protected class--protected classes are the only things people can't discriminate based on. So like, race, sex, religion are protected, but democrat/republican/green party aren't protected. Businesses can legally discriminate against non-protected classes. It's just usually a bad business strategy to turn customers away.
  Edit: the second sign is definitely more questionable, as it does specifically discriminate based on beliefs. I was mostly focused on the first sign.

To be fair if I see a sign saying they support Trump, GOP, or anti-LGBT I keep walking on by. I have seen many places that say if you are a bigot, sexist, or racist you are not welcome here. Those are the places I spend my money at.
- Exactly. A Trump sign at a business guarantees that business won't get my money now or in the future.
  
  There's a large grocery store chain here that the owner was at the Jan 6th insurrection. A lot of people, including myself, refuse to shop there now.
  
  I stopped going to a dentist because her office looked like Trump campaign headquarters. Signs and shit everywhere. She otherwise seemed nice and competent but hell no.
- Don't forget the "Jesus fish" on their logo.
  I'm from out west, so it was a very foreign concept for me when I visited my sister in Arkansas and saw a lot of "Christian Family Auto" type places with Jesus swag trying to win over business.
- There's a pizza place in a town near me that has "Make Pizza Great Again" permanently painted on their sign in huge letters. Needless to say, they will never get my business.
  
  There's a place near me that I was planning on eating at. Then I saw they had a "Back the Bleu" burger. They won't get my business.

That's something that I could get behind.
- Hypocrite
  
  Lol not even remotely

- Wouldn't supplying Trump come under religious belief.
- Trump support is a practically a cult.
  
  It is also definitely religious-based.

Well within their right. A business can serve whoever the fuck it wants. You don't like it, don't shop there.
- Based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, they cannot discriminate for any reason that is a protected status. However, they can makeup any reason for not serving them. That means some racist asshole could say they aren't serving the black customer because they were rude or some other made up shit. Thankfully, your political stance is not a protected status.
- All fun and games until you can't find anywhere to shop or buy anything.
  You want to act like it's the odd shop and you can just go next door, but just look at history. Really, take an objective look at history.
  
  This is what Republicans wanted after all. Remember gay wedding cakes??
- This is a bad take. When we, society, allow you to register as a business, we form an agreement. Part of that agreement is that you follow certain rules. We make those rules to better society.
  Some rules are things like pay taxes, or don't sell outdated food. Some rules are there to make sure anyone can shop there, without discussion.
  Those rules are important because it's very possible for a small number of business owners to make a group of people's lives very difficult, especially out in rural areas where people don't have a lot of options.
  For a concrete example, let's say Pfizer cures cancer. Do you want them to be able to say they won't sell to Christians? You can't just "go elsewhere". But now this is allowed.
  The much more dangerous part of this ruling is that the supreme Court ruled on a case where there was no standing. A lot of people don't realize that having standing is one of the cornerstones of our legal structure. Now, in theory, any idiot could sue for any dreamed up scenario and have a much better chance of winning in court.
  
  Society needs to codify these rules into law though otherwise bad actors break those rules. When a right wing activist supreme court removes these protections, people get hurt. But, a store like this isnt doing this to hurt people, it's to make a statement that the far-rights own discrimination can backfire on them. It's a form of protest and a statement, not true bigotry. Its like using the flying spaghetti monster tactic to push legislation to be more strict on religion. These people are trying ro show that regulation on business to prevent denying goods and services is important for everyone, not just minorities the the right hates.
  
  Gay. Wedding. Cakes.

We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason! :D
Especially racist sexist homophobic chud dipshit fascist bootlickers.

WAIT! NOT LIKE THAT THOUGH! IT WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO KEEP THE GAYS OUT!
/s
But that's one way to do it. No churches, no religious people, no trump supporters, no republicans allowed at all. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

I love this! This is amazing!

MAGA isn't a protected class. This has always been allowed.

Such an unbelievable ruling, but this is really the best possible response. If conservatives thought they were persecuted before…

I don't have an issue with any of this. Private Business owners can sell their products or services to whoever they want. Don't see what the big deal is. If you don't like it, there's plenty more competition willing to take your money.

Honestly i would expect that a webdesigner would not wanna put up with my bullshit way earlier.
Understandable, have a nice day. but no we wanna make a scene.

Now that #SupremeCourt says we can discriminate, I'm trying to figure out what to tag content. #NoMAGA #NoRepublicans #QueerOnly #NoBreeders #NoChristians
- My understanding is that businesses can refuse services which conflict with their beliefs, morals, etc, not broadly refuse to serve people
  So you can't refuse someone for being a MAGA clown, but you could refuse to print MAGA shirts for a customer
  
  I feel like this whole thing is simply just a clarification on what was already the case. Like, a baker can't just refuse a gay person for being gay. But they could refuse to make that gay person a huge dick shaped cake because, presumably, they would also refuse to make a huge dick shaped cake for a straight woman as well. The reason the customer wants the dick cake is irrelevant; merely that the cake is a dick.

I don't have an issue with any of this. Private Business owners can sell their products or services to whoever they want. Don't see what the big deal is. If you don't like it, there's plenty more competition willing to take your money.
- Yeah, historically that didn't work out great for everyone. There's a reason if you open a public business in the United States you are expected to serve the public.

For me the difference is in refusing to serve someone because how they were born vs the choices they make.
Totally ok with the later, but the laws are supposed to prevent the former. Just like it being illegal to discriminate against someone just because they are black or white or Asian or whatever.
- A lot of the people who discriminate against the lgbtq+ community absolutely believe that sexual orientation is a choice, and I’d wager that includes the justices who ruled in favor of the web designer.
- I agree with you. Isn't race specifically a protected class with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendment specifically? Political ideology or beliefs are not protected, unless violence is utilized. Please correct me if I am wrong.
  
  Correct. The point is sexual orientation should be protected like race.

European here so it may not be clear to me, but I thought discriminating against religious movements like the church or trump supporters is still illegal. Correct?
- Political affiliation is not a protected class. You are permitted to discriminate based on politics. Religious affiliation is a protected class. You cannot discriminate solely on the basis of religion... Until now.
  Conservatives love to discriminate, but their new rulings are also making it easier to discriminate against them.

You could always do this. But you'd be a damn idiot to antagonize half a potential customer base but ... Well that's one way to run a business.
- I may be misinformed - but I was led to believe this is a book shop and therefore unlikely to lose many customers
- the potential customers that would already point their finger at you screaming "shame" if they saw you do business with people they dislike? Good riddance.
- Nowhere close to half of Americans are Trump supporters.
- Depending on where they're based it could be much less than half
- Half? Yeah right! Even if they were half the nation - which they aren't - it's gonna be like 90% in some areas and 10% in others.

This isn't really malicious compliance. This is the very foundation of the point made by the Supreme Court. You should be able to refuse service to anyone for any reason. Anything less than that is the government engaging in violence to force you to work.
- Just replace "Gay" with "Black" and see how awesome it sounds.
  
  I don't think it's a smart decision. I think discriminating for any reason makes business sense nor will it win you any allies, but it should be legal. Anything less than that is the government forcing you to work.

I can't imagine owning a business and actively promoting your willing to give up sales because of some random person's beliefs.
I fully understand consumers not shopping at a store that puts up signs you disagree with, you can just go to another one.
Nothing wrong in believing in and supporting the good things. I just think I'd not agitate customers if it were my business.
- I can’t imagine owning a business and actively promoting your willing to give up sales because of some random person’s beliefs.
  Read the rest of this thread. Some sort of TDS here.
  
  Yeah - I have no idea why all these stupid libruls are angry at the 10s of millions of traitorous dipshits who voted for a traitorous dipshit who did everything he could to ruin the country. Must be TDS.

fair
my god the store looks gross what they sellin?

I doubt many trump supporters are shopping there anyways. even if they are trump supporters, good luck trying to prove it before denying a sale. they dont walk around with it stamped on their forehead ;)
- Well they do have their hats.
- I'm pretty sure this is sarcasm, but my sarcasm radar has been right and truly fucked over the past 8 years.

inb4 get woke go broke, rip their business. not a good look in the bud light era
- Who the fuck even cares about bud light? Are you twelve?
- BudLight was pandering and got called on it by everyone that was paying attention. "Go woke, go broke" is clearly not a trend, just look at Twitter and Elon doing the opposite and losing fuckloads of money.
- Inbev did well out of it either way, the Bud Lite boycotters were idiots for this reason alone.

I think this is ok. It’s how the market works. If you have enough people who agree with your stance, then you’ll survive, if not, you fail. Transversely, if you are trying to make a profitable business, you remove all roadblocks from a consumer who wants to do business with you.
- Are you saying that minorities should not be protected?
  
  Let them protect themselves. Don't come in with a white saviour complex and think that you're better than them

Nothing wrong with this. Their business their choice. Only time will tell if it was a good choice. depending where it is I dont think it will be. I think everyone is tired of the back and forth bs !

They are only hurting themselves. Let them have at it

I'm personally offended by this, but...
Regulating my emotions is my own problem and no one else's
The business owner is well within their rights to do so.
Just shop somewhere else.