Bernie Sanders gets booed by crowd at Montana rally for saying Israel has the right to defend itself.
Bernie Sanders gets booed by crowd at Montana rally for saying Israel has the right to defend itself.
94 comments
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It does, but not the right to genocide. For FAR too long they've used his line to excuse crimes against humanity.
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The argument is laid out in the article linked by InfustryStandard but the short of it is: As Gaza and rhe West Bank are Israeli-occupied territories, Israel doesn't have the right under international law to defend itself via military action against groups from those territories, unlike if the attack had come from—say—Lebanon. What it does have the right to do is engage in counterinsurgency effort while guaranteeing the Palestinian people's basic rights under international law. They're directly responsible for the lives of any and all civilians in the territories, and don't get to outsource that responsibility to Hamas.
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This is an interesting concept I hadn't heard before. I'm still pondering on it. Thanks for pointing it out.
In my country (USA) it would certainly be INSANE if USN started sending cruise missiles into Puerto Rico because some Puerto Ricans had done terror attacks.
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Germany had a right to defend itself against Poland.
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It does NOT have the right to defend itself. Please stop
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They're saying that any claim to a right to self-defense doesn't apply here because Israel isn't defending itself. Precisely because it's the occupying force who's committing genocide.
If Israel WERE under attack, it would obviously have the right to defend itself. But that doesn't matter here.
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Read the article. Even if it was truly under attack, it wouldn't have the right to engage in military action like, say, Ukraine is against Russia. It has the right to engage in counterinsurgency after guaranteeing the basic rights of the population of Gaza. Cutting off food, water or electricity is obviously a no-go, and generally they don't get to justify actions by "military advantages". The limits are a lot more stringent and they're not even pretending to meet them.
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I have to admit, my mental capacity doesn't do long articles today. That's on me.
But yes, what they're doing is not defending themselves. Is what I said (I think). I feel like we're somehow talking past each other when we're saying the same thing.
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"Russian troops on Occupied Crimea have the right to defend itself against Ukraine"
This is your argument.
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It really, really isn't.
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True the real comparison is "Nazi Germany has the right to defend itself against Poland".
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Which is also not what I said. At all.
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It can claim self defense against STATES. Bernie specifically calls Hamas a "terrorist organisation" which he says Israel has the right to defend itself against. This is a lie.
Francesca Albanese perfectly explains why Israel does not have the right to self defense in this video
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Mate (genderneutral). We're saying the same thing. A right to self defence exists in principle but it does not apply in case of Israel's war on Palestine. The right to self defence is besides the point. We're in agreement.
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Do you agree Bernie should stop saying it?
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Not if in context it is obvious he's replying to the claim and saying how it doesn't apply. You cannot reply to a claim without repeating it in some form.
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Good. This is about Bernie voluntarily saying it before he says Israel is not committing genocide.
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Not directed at me but I'd like to add: Bernie is a politician trying to change minds. If he DIDN'T include that phrase or (worse) said they didn't have the right, so so so so so many Americans would completely dismiss anything he had to say. Granted, many still will because of the socialist and Democrat label. Politics are very divided here and he's trying to reach out to the other side.
He is on the side of the Palestinians. He has spoken out against this genocide many times. He wants to end the bloodshed.
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Bernie is trying to change Liberals minds to support Israel and brainwash them into believe Israel has a right to self-defense. It appears to be working quite well.
Nobody wants to hear Hasbara disclaimers in front of speeches about Israel committing war crimes. Bernie needs to stop both-sidesing a genocide.
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No you
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A lot of borders were rewritten as a consequence of wars throughout history. The initial Israel land was given to them by the victors of WW2. It's legitimate. Get over it.
Their actions since to slowly and inhumanely drive out Palestinians in order to occupy more land for themselves are not.
Israel does have the right to defend itself, as any current country or region looking to protect itself. Their aggression beyond that self-defense is what should be stopped and punished.
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Their actions since to slowly and inhumanely drive out Palestinians in order to occupy more land for themselves are not.
"slowly" you do realize the first thing Israel did upon their founding was the Nakba right?
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Had that worked for them them, we wouldn't be here today discussing current day genocides. So yes, "slowly".
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"Why did the Nazis invade Russia when they already conquered Poland?"
Because (drum roll please)
They are Nazis.
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Yeah, I don't get it. Nazis were set on European domination so of course they would have attacked Russia. Russia would have invaded them as well had the situation been reversed because they shared those ambitions, so I'm not seeing the point you're trying to make.
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It is not like Israel is actively ethnically cleansing and expanding in the West Bank for decades already. No sir. I do not get it.
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I'm not seeing anything that changes my initial points.
Almost every country that has egomaniacs in power strives for conquest.
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Awesome you did not watch the video nor read the comment.
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94 comments