4mo ago

Proxmox vs. Debian: Running media server on older hardware

I'm still running a 6th-generation Intel CPU (i5-6600k) on my media server, with 64GB of RAM and a Quadro P1000 for the rare 1080p transcoding needs. Windows 10 is still my OS from when it was a gaming PC and I want to switch to Linux. I'm a casual user on my personal machine, as well as with OpenWRT on my network hardware.

Here are the few features I need:

MergerFS with a RAID option for drive redundancy. I use multiple 12TB drives right now and have my media types separated between each. I'd like to have one pool that I can be flexible with space between each share.
Docker for *arr/media downloaders/RSS feed reader/various FOSS tools and gizmos.
I'd like to start working with Home Assistant. Installing with WSL hasn't worked for me, so switching to Linux seems like the best option for this.

Guides like Perfect Media Server say that Proxmox is better than a traditional distro like Debian/Ubuntu, but I'm concerned about performance on my 6600k. Will LXCs and/or a VM for Docker push my CPU to its limits? Or should I do standard Debian or even OpenMediaVault?

I'm comfortable learning Proxmox and its intricacies, especially if I can move my Windows 10 install into a VM as a failsafe while building a storage pool with new drives.

65 comments

Proxmox is Debian under the hood. It's just a qemu and lxc management interface.
- yeah, and qemu and lxc are very much legacy at this point. Stick with docker/podman/kubernetes for containers.
  
  right tool for the job mate, not everything works great in a container.
  Also Proxmox is not legacy as its used a lot in homelabs and also some companys
  I use proxmox to carve up my dedicated host with OVH, 3 of the vms run docker anyway.
  
  QEMU is legacy? Pray tell me how you're running VMs on architectures other than x86 on modern computers without QEMU
  
  Agreed.
  I run podman w/ rootless containers, and it works pretty well. Podman is extra nice in that it has decent suppor for kubernetes, so there's a smooth transition path from podman -> kubernetes if you ever want/need it. Docker works well too, and docker compose is pretty simple to get into.
  
  What are you going to run containers on? You need VMs to power everything.
None of your listed use cases will even come close to taxing the 6600k. It's going to probably sit happily in idle states most of the time.
Proxmox also has great snapshotting and backup features. Makes it easier to mess around with your containers/VMs without worrying too much.
- Only when using zfs, which op is not.
Your CPU should be perfectly capable of that. I ran Proxmox with some VMs and containers on an i5-2400 with 16GB RAM just fine.
You could run on bare Debian as well but virtualization will give you more flexibility. If you get a Zigbee Dongle or the like, you can pass it through to the VM Home Assistant is running in.
I don't know MergeFS but usually the recommendation is ZFS.
- would agree the hardware would run everything fine
Promox runs on debian. But anyway you will be surprised about proxmox can run in limited hardware. I have it running in a garbage mini PC and an old notebook :D
My needs are pretty similar to yours and I've recently moved back to using hypervisors after running everything from Debian to Arch to NixOS bare-metal over the last decade or so. It's so easy to bring-up/tear-down environments, which is great for testing things and pretty much the whole point of a homelab. I've got a few VMs + one LXC running on Proxmox with some headroom on a 6th gen i7, you should be fine resource wise tbh. Worth mentioning that you'll most likely need to passthrough your drives to the guest VM which is not supported via the webUI, but the config is documented on their wiki.
Overall, I'm happy with this setup and loving CoreOS as a base-OS for VMs and rootless podman containers for applications.
- Not to mention: Snapshots.
Proxmox is Debian. :-)
I do always suggest installing Debian first, and then installing Proxmox on top. This allows you to properly set up your disks, and networking as needed, as the Proxmox installer is a bit limited: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_12_Bookworm
Once you have it up and running, have a look at the CT Templates. There's a whole set of pre-configured templates from TurnkeyLinux (again, debian+) that make it trivial to set up all kinds of services in lightweight LXC Containers.
For Home Assistant a VM is your best bet, as it makes setting up connectivity way easier than messing with docker networking. It also allows easy USB passthrough, for things like ZWave/Zigbee/Bluetooth adapters.
- I would just install Proxmox since it is way easier
  Also last time I checked the Debian installer didn't support ZFS
- I do always suggest installing Debian first, and then installing Proxmox on top.
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Proxmox it's own OS unto itself? What would be the advantage of installing Proxmox 'on top of' Debian when it's Debian already as you pointed out?
  
  You have some options that aren't in the installer e.g. full disk encryption
Proxmox is pretty much focused on ZFS, LXC containers and VMs. You want mergerFS and Docker. I say avoid Proxmox and go for Debian or another distro.
OP, I'm running Proxmox on and old Dell T320 /32gb RAM. I am not having any real issues doing so. I run Docker and a handful of Docker containers. I'm really not into the arr stack, but I wouldn't think you'd have much issue.
Not calling you out specifically OP, but can someone tell me why this is a thing on the internet?
multiple 12GB drives
GB??? I assume TB automatically when people say this but it still is a speedbreaker when I'm thinking about the post.
- Good catch, yes my drives are 12TB. My brain is still stuck in 2005. :)
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned Incus, it’s a hypervisor like Proxmox but it’s designed to install onto Debian no prob. Does VMs and containers just like Proxmox, and snapshots too. The web UI is essential, you add a repo for it.
Proxmox isn’t reliable if you’re not paying them, the free people are the test people - and a bit back there was a bad update they pushed that broke shit. If I’d have updated before they pulled it, I’d have been hosed.
Basically you want a device that you don’t have to worry about updates, because updates are good for security. And Proxmox ain’t that.
On top of their custom kernel and stuff, it’s just less eyes than, say, the kernel Debian ships. Proxmox isn’t worth the lock-in and brittleness for just making VMs.
So to summarize, Debian and Incus installed. BTRFS if you’re happy with 1 drive or 2 RAID 1 drives. BTRFS gets scrubbing and bitrot detection (protection with RAID 1). ZFS for more drives. Toss on Cockpit too.
If you want less hands-on, do to OpenMediaVault. No room for Proxmox in my view, esp. for no clustering.
Also the iGPU on the 6600K likely is good enough for whatever transcoding you’d do (esp. if it’s rare and 1080p, it’ll do 4k no prob and multiple streams at once). The Nvidia card is just wasting power.
- Thanks so much for mentioning this, trying it out now
I use OpenMediaVault to run something similar. It’s a headless Debian distribution with web based config. Takes a bit of work but I like it.
I don't know about your first need ("MergerFS") but if you find useful, I have an old Intel NUC 6i3SYH (i3-6100U) with 16Gb RAM and I was running with Windows 10 for Plex+Arr and also HomeAssistant in VirtualBox. I was running into issues until I switched to Proxmox. Now I'm running Proxmox to run Docker with a bunch of containers (plex+arr and others) and also a virtual machine which has HomeAssistant and everything was smooth. I have to say that there is a learning curve, but it's very stable.
- Seconding this, I'm currently running Proxmox on 3 small NUC-type PCs (two Dell Optiplexes and a Topton from AliExpress). The Topton has a slower Celeron, the two Dells have a i5-6500 and i3-8100t and are both very snappy running a few different containers and VMs (including HomeAssistant).
MergerFS and SnapRAID could be good for you. It's not immediate parity like with ZFS RAID (You run a regular cronjob to calculate RAID parity) but it supports mismatched drive sizes, expansion of the pool at any time, and some other features that should be good for a media server where live parity isn't critical.
Proxmox and TrueNAS are nice because they help manage ZFS and other remote management within a nice UI but really you can just use Debian with SSH and do the same stuff. DietPi has a few nice utilities on top of Debian (DDNS manager and CLI fstab utilities, for example)but not super necessary.
Personally I use TrueNAS but I also used DietPi/Debian for years and both have benefits and it really matters what your workflow is. OMV supports everything you want too (incouding SnapRAID) but takes extra setup which put me off.
Docker or LXC containers won't hurt your performance btw. There's supposedly some tiny overhead but both are designed to use the basic Linux system as much as possible: they're way faster than on WSL. For hardware acceleration it'll be deferred to the GPU for most things and there's lots of documentation to set it up. The best thing about docker is that every application is kept separate to eachother - updates can be done incrementally and rollbacks are possible too!
Thanks everyone, I feel much better about moving forward. I'm leaning towards Proxmox at this point because I could still run Windows as a VM while playing around and setting up a new drive pool. I'd like a setup that I can gradually upgrade because I don't often have a full day to dedicate to these matters.
MergerFS still seems like a good fit for my media pool, simply only to solve an issue where one media type is filling a whole drive as another sits at 50% capacity. I've lost this data before and it was easy to recover by way of my preferred backup method (private torrent tracker with paid freeleech). A parity drive with SnapRaid might be a nice stop gap. I don't think I feel confident enough with ZFS to potentially sacrifice uptime.
My dockers and server databases, however, are on a separate SSD that could benefit from ZFS. These files are backed up regularly so I can recover easily and I'd like as many failsafes as possible to protect myself. Having my Radarr database was indispensable when I lost a media drive a few weeks ago.
My server runs Debian VMs in Proxmox on an i7-2600 which has a lower benchmark than the 6600k. I also used the Perfect Media Server guide, and have 2 x 8T data drives pooled with MergerFS with 1 for snapraid parity, these are passed through to the main VM from Proxmox using 'qm set'. One thing I would often forget after deleting/restoring this VM was to run qm set again after restore, ensuring it has the flag to not back up those drives or else backups will fail and I have to go uncheck the backup option on each drive to fix it.
If I need to spin up another VM for tinkering it's easy enough to mount the NFS share as a volume with docker compose. Proxmox rarely shows CPU usage go above 50% (average is 10%) and this handles the whole *arr stack plus usenet and torrents in a single VM and compose file. I don't have GPU passthrough set up because the motherboard on this older rig didn't support IOMMU, never had issues with Plex or Jellyfin transcoding for Chromecast. I might build a new rig with GPU passthrough support to buffer media faster and selfhost LLMs when I get around to it.
ZFS is probably what you want
- Not at all
use nixos! you won't regret it

65 comments