You guys have to end it

As someone that literally spent 25 years driving a manual, including various stints in racing. Manuals have seen their day.
It used to be if you wanted better mileage, you drove a manual. If you wanted to be faster on the track, drive a manual (caveat there is drag racing.)
Today? The computer is just better at controlling a transmission. I drive a Camry Hybrid now and not having shifts is REALLY weird and the drone getting up to highway speeds is annoying, but I do like the 45mpg. Not to mention, when I sat down to learn how the Toyota Hybrid Drive works... It's a pretty clever system.
There are a lot of times that nostalgia gets the better of me and I wish I had a car with a manual. My oldest is possibly joining a skating team that is a 2 hour drive away. It's tempting to let him use my car and then buy an older manual for myself as a toy. I'd love to get a hold of another mid-80's Corolla GT-S. I autocrossed one back in the late 80's early 90's. It still remains my favorite car I've ever owned.
- Same here . Obviously it does feel more like actually driving a car instead of a toy but to be honest, electric is here and they don't shift. Today when i feel like doing some driving for the sake of driving- a motorcycle is much more fun anyway.

We should also get rid of starter motors. Who needs them? We can just hand crank the car to start it, like real men did back in the day.
- I love when it backfires and accidentally breaks your arm! So manly!!!

PUT IT IN "H"
- What country is this car from?
- She'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene.

During Covid, I put together a budget sim rig. Played a looooot of VR Assetto Corsa. Learned to drive a manual, then went and did a manual Porsche race car on a track in Vegas. It worked! It was one of the best things I've ever done. I was flushed when I got out of the car. It was overwhelming.
Anyway, I was ready. So I took the natural next step. I bought a manual 1984 Ford F-250 with a ~7L (7.4L?) engine, dual gas tanks that held more fuel than I could ever afford. It was a beast. Long story short, I was not ready. Oh, did I mention I lived in mountainous Utah at the base of said mountains at the time?
- Yeah pre year ~2000 cars are a bit different lmao

This is a tip for people that don't drive automatic transmission, if you ever try it, put it in R and really floor it. The R stands for racing mode!

I hate the knob. I can't decide if that or the Nissan "orb of motion" as Garbage Time put it is my least favourite. I miss my manual car, but I'm on the electric train now, as computery as it gets.
- Ours has a stick configuration. Fellow Frank supporter

my uncle learned driving with a manual and he said it scared the shit out of him because anytime he went up a hill hed start going backwards trying to get to the next gear 😭

I bought a new 2024 vehicle last year with a manual transmission. This will be the last manual I ever own. I don’t expect them to be around by the next time I get a car.
I’ve enjoyed driving stick since I was a teenager. It still makes my commute more enjoyable. A good rev matched downshift still makes me smile. I’m going to miss the experience when it finally comes to an end, but hopefully I can keep it up another 20 years.

Funnily enough, I have a few friends who really think like this. Personally, having driven manual for 20 years before I switched to electric a year ago, I don't see it, apart from a certain comfortable nostalgia. Automatic is better in cities and it's a lot easier for kids to learn. Handbrake starts on hills? What a weird thing to be nostalgic about.
I suspect it's just these people think handling the gearstick makes them special. It's the one thing they can be smug about,completely discounting the fact that any old idiot can learn to drive manual if they just practice a bit. Reminds me of my grandpa who insisted that it's better to chop down trees with an axe and a handsaw, instead of using these modern chainsaws. He was a stubborn old dude.
- Good insight, it really is basically “if you get rid of this, then I won’t be good at anything”

Electric cars have no transmission. If you buy electric, there are no stick shifts because electric cars only have one gear (with very few exceptions, and even then you'd just have 2 gears.)
Idk how this plays into the joke, but it's a neat fact.
- Technically they have at least 2 "gears", forward and reverse. But does it really count if all you do is shout at the angry pixies to run the other way?

Manual is hell for people with back or knee issues.
- Clutches are for the weak. Grind em till you find em.
- Person with back and knee issues here: worth it to not have to deal with a slushbox that won't downshift when I need it to. I'll never give up my manual.
  
  Eh, automatic cars will let you go into "manual" mode in which you tell it when to switch the gears. Mildly useful for steep hills to stop it from switching back and forth in some rare scenarios.
  
  Yeah I've got regular back and ankle issues. It's annoying when they flare up but really not that bad. Unfortunately manuals are harder and harder to find so this will likely be my last

Manuals are infinitely more fun to drive and I like to manipulate the performance characteristics of the car myself but they're probably going extinct to EV which is fine.
- Not just EVs, modern beltless CVTs and automatic transmissions make manual transmissions practically obsolete. With a wider set of gear ranges and way better performance and reliability they're better in almost every way than a stick shift. That said, doesn't matter how good a transmission is if it's undersized for the engine, so I'm not say the transmission in any particular vehicle is good, just the tech has developed in recent years
  
  those transmissions are only better on paper. sure they could be theoretically better but in practice the transmission programming is to way over aggressively upshift in order to miser out a little more fuel economy on paper (but in practice they waste fuel)

You're like a solid 20 years behind here bud, they don't even offer manual transmissions on high end luxury cars. People don't buy them. I get it, I miss having manual cars, and it's not as hard as people always complained, I could teach a dog to drive manual over the phone, it's really not hard.
- That's not true. Honda selled more manual than automatic cars in the past year.
  
  they don’t even offer manual transmissions on high end luxury cars
  Honda
  Hmm.
- There are plenty of cars offering manual transmission, its just not available for every CSR out there. If you want to have fun with it you can.

Wife owns an automatic, it's fantastic for when you're stuck in traffic, but GOD does it make shitty decisions. Of course it cannot anticipate whether or not you're going to be climbing a slope, so it goes up a gear, but then when it struggles to climb it has to immediately go back down a gear, but you lost all speed already and it's raining and you can't pick up traction again so you slide back down the slope and try again. It's also only really effective for the most tranquil driving, and it has a huuuuuuge inertia when accelerating, like a good half second of not obeying your pedaling, which is 1.frustrating and 2.dangerous in situations where you have to get out of the way urgently. So, would only recommend for old people or people frequently stuck in traffic. The technology has ways to go still
- Check your owners manual to see if you have a button to disable "overdrive", it's for adverse conditions such as uphill or downhill, off-road or rainy, etc. It prevents the shifting up too early and gives each gear more range to operate in. By default it's on because it saves fuel, and they make the button hard to find sometimes.
  
  There is in fact something like this, never tried it. Thanks for the tip
- I drove one of the first semi trucks with an automatic transmission, and that thing was dangerous. It would pop me out of gear going down hill, thank fuck the brakes held out. The reverse gear could either roll the rig back at 10 inches per hour, or 10mph, and not much in-between.
  Was nice being able to sip a coffee through traffic tho
  
  That must have been a while ago, I assume trucks got auto transmissions before consumer cars ?
- Damn. Ours doesn't behave that way.
  
  Maybe it's the brand. It's a Hyundai

You'll never catch me doing something that can be automated away, this includes shifting gears in a car.
But a car is just a tool to me, like a cordless drill, so i'm sure I don't get it.
- As a programmer, I am more than happy automating a task for which I will never recoup my automation time investment.
  It’s the principle of the thing.
  
  as a senior programmer (with limited, valuable time), i exercise good judgement before wasting weeks on unused automations.
  "measure twice, cut once" as the craftsmen used to say. or YAGNI
- It's not like you can use that time freed by automating gear shifting for something else.
  It's a tool, yes, but personally, I like having more control over tools I use. I'd choose a cordless drill that I can set the torque control myself over one that doesn't have that option.
  
  It doesn't free up time no but it does make driving ever so slightly less involved.
  Controls on a drill have a clear practical purpose, and to my knowledge they don't make them that do that automatically in a reasonable price range. I would totally buy that if they did. ;-)
- I totally understand people who like the whole ritual of the manual car. Hell, that's how I feel about music making. But there's something to be said for just getting something to happen without much effort.
  
  Just because you need to learn something additional does not mean driving a manual requires more effort in any substantial way. Its more effort than 0, but it is not taxing or hard to drive a manual when you are used to it. I do not think about pushing the clutch in or shifting, I just do it.
  I will say dont ever drive a manual if you will be in stop and go traffic for long periods of time regularly though. Im personally never in it.
- Pretty much every consumer in every auto market agrees with you. There are downsides to manual, you can grind a transmission's gears to dust in a couple of days if you do it wrong, you really can't trust someone to drive your car at all, you are much more actively driving, so you're paying more attention, but you're also more stressed, if you're in bumper to bumper traffic, you will have to do the most difficult aspects of driving every few seconds to inch along for a half hour or more and that's REALLY shitty, if you need to stop on any kind of hill, you have to be aware your gonna need half a car length or more to get into gear where your just going to be falling down that hill while you convince yourself you don't need to panic and you will catch the gear before you're past the point of no return. You get better mileage, you get better control, you pay attention more, you focus more, but it's not all roses, the risks usually aren't worth it for modern car buyers.
  
  your gonna need half a car length or more to get into gear
  my arsehole just clenched tight for any car you've ever driven. eugh. you let a car fall back half a car length before the biting point? that's literally a ton of pressure on it. you're way better off giving too much gas and too little clutch than letting the car fall half a length backwards bro. the former will perhaps stress your clutch slightly but it won't fuck with your gears like the latter
  like a chinese burn vs a broken bone
  
  Starting on a slope isn't particularly hard, you have to make use of the handbrake
  
  Not saying you're wrong in general but
  if you need to stop on any kind of hill, you have to be aware your gonna need half a car length or more to get into gear where your just going to be falling down that hill while you convince yourself you don't need to panic and you will catch the gear before you're past the point of no return
  My shitty Toyota Aygo has a hill start assist thing and it works very well. Basically when you release the brake at 0 km/h it holds it for a few seconds or until you reach the slip point of your first gear. Also handbrake start is right there in the OP, (and a mandatory part of drivers ed over here)

Big oil forced that shit onto you instead of going the far superior EV route from the beginning. Now EVs are finally taking over and I'm happy my kids never have to get fuel grease on their hands and suffer those nasty fumes at gas stations. Shifters were needed for an inferior technology to work. I liked it as an experience when I learned to drive. But cars are mostly transport due to failure of better public transport infrastructure. I don't care whether they're fun. I drive for fun on the Xbox or maybe in a GoKart every few years.
Oh that felt good to rant.
- EVs weren’t viable for long distance travel before though. Like batteries didn’t have the energy density they have today. The advancements in battery tech relied heavily on the advancements in computing tech. Like for battery research, manufacturing, battery management. And research in computer technology has never stopped.
  Even if they never stopped making electric cars, they would have stayed short distance vehicles for a long time since battery tech didn’t advance fast enough. We might have gotten long distance EVs a decade sooner but definitely not decades. And fast charging is also only possible because of miniaturization of computer chips, nobody would’ve bought an EV that can travel less than 100km and take a full day to charge for their primary mode of transportation .
  
  I'm sure batteries would have progressed more quickly if they had been chosen as the preferred path 100 years ago.
- Except they made sure you couldn't repair it so You'll end up dropping that 50k once every 5-10 years anyway 🤪
  (Im pro-EV btw. just wish EVs were pro-me)
  
  You know that there's shops all over the place who will fix cells in bad packs? Replacing the whole battery is FUD similar to warning someone they need to replace their whole engine if there's any issue.
  
  IME, (2019 Volt) maintenance costs are lower with a PHEV. I have needed to take it to a dealer to deal with a OBD2 code that neither I nor my local mechanic could resolve, but the replacement part and labor was reasonably priced.
- With Tesla burning right now (sometimes literally), I'm concerned for the future of EVs.
  There are other EV-only makers, most notably in my mind, rivian, but not many others come to mind.
  Most other manufacturers have either stopped making EVs entirely, or switched to hybrid, or hybrid adjacent technologies. Honda is a good example of this backpedaling. They dipped their collective toes into EVs with proper hybrid vehicles during the pre-pandemic years. Between 2015 and 2020 (ish) they had a PHEV, the clarity. It was discontinued in 2020. I forget if the last model year was 2019 or 2020. Either way, I still kind of want one.... Regardless, they took everything they learned and put it into their fancy new e-CVT, which essentially, at most speeds, turns the gasoline motor of the vehicle into a generator, powering an electric motor that drives the wheels.
  Don't get me wrong, that's still more efficient than burning the Jurassic forests to drive motion, but it's not as efficient as running the drive motor from batteries that were charged from green sources.
  Most other manufacturers have done something similar in abandoning BEVs for HEVs or whatever Honda is doing. There's a few stand out exceptions, like the F150 lightening. Good on you Ford... But the list is pretty short, especially compared to the fuel based alternatives.
  It's a good time for other companies to pick up the ball that Tesla dropped here, and I'm hoping they do. .... I mean, they won't because they're too busy buying yachts with all that fossil fuel bribe money they get, but I can dream.
  
  Apart from China, Hyundai/Kia is producing really great EVs. And the German brands have viable ones that might eventually catch up to Korea and China now that they're taking it more seriously. Renault is really getting it lately and even Stellantis is coming with new platforms that are pretty good. The Japanese have invested more in anti-EV-propaganda than in EVs.
  We have a Hyundai Kona from 2019 and it's an amazing car. Every single person who ever tried it never wants to drive an ICE again. And this is an old low-to-mid-end vehicle. Our next EV is definitely going to be a lot better.
  
  BYD is doing just fine, your shitty protectionist government just won’t allow you to buy them.
  
  BYD and xiaomi produce more EVs than American manufacturers produce vehicles in total.
  The future of EVs is secure and the majority of drivers on earth will be driving one by 2050. Just not in the US, Canada, UK or other failed states.

All hail the Unimog!
- Biblically accurate transmission
- "How many hydraulic levers you need?"
  "All of them"
  "How many hydraulic-driven pieces of equipment does your rig have?"
  "Mind your own business"
- you aren't supposed to show people what the control panel to the mcflurry machine looks like

Laughs in Allison 18 spd

It’s been difficult to find manual transmisssions for a couple of decades here in the US. That ship has sailed.
While most of my life I vowed my kids would learn manual, I gave up on that idea because
manual transmission cars are rare and disappearing
automatics now are more fuel efficient
CVT are reliable and even more efficient
EVs don’t shift
My kids started driving in a world of automatics and will soon be in a world with no transmissions
- cvts are reliable
  Now THAT'S a statement made by the utterly deranged
  
  If they aren't made by Nissan, they are.
  
  Belt CVTs - I'm right there with you, but take a look into the more modern geared CVTs such as Toyota e-CVT in their hybrids - I think Honda have a similar tech. It's a planetary gear system that provides infinite gears without the rubber band feel that plagued belt CVTs and hella-reliable.
  https://youtu.be/vHc-_E8xWnM
  I'm a petrolhead at heart and would love more options for manuals but in lieu of that, a geared CVT is by far the next best transmission and 100x better than a traditional auto.
  Even better, jump in one and take it for a drive - because there are gears, it feels more connected to the motor - almost manual-like response and no sluggish delay like a traditional auto.
  You literally pick your revs by pushing the throttle more or less, they're magic for hills or when the car is packed since you're never waiting for revs to climb up into the power nor holding a speed because any faster and you have to change again which takes you out of the power again. If you want more power, you simply modulate that with the throttle and the revs rise instantly to accommodate.
  
  CVTs are good for tractors that need a wide range of torque ratios but still stay automated.
  
  I think he is confusing CVT with the toyota eCVT which is quite different and is actually reliable
  
  I've had a Subaru CVT for 10+ years with over 200k miles no issues. Anecdotal yes, but I've grown fond of the CVT feel, it's smooth, I like it.
- When I learned how to drive, manual transmissions were higher performance and better fuel efficiency: side by side comparisons of the exact same model of car would show better 0-60 and quarter mile times, while having slightly better EPA fuel efficiency ratings, for the manual transmission.
  At some point, though, the sheer number of gears in an automatic transmission surpassed those in the typical manual gearbox, and the average automatic today has 6 gears, up to 9 in some Mercedes and 10 in certain Ford and GM models. So they could start selecting gear ratios for better fuel efficiency, without "wasting" a valuable gear slot. There was a generation of Corvettes that was notorious for having a 6th gear that was worthless for actual performance but helped the car sneak by with a better highway fuel mileage rating.
  And the automatics became much faster at shifting gears, with even the ultra high performance supercars shifting to paddle shifters where the driver could still control the gear, but with the shifting mechanism automated. Ferrari's paddle shifter models started outperforming the traditional stick shift models in the early 2000's, if I remember correctly. As those gear shifting technologies migrated over to regular automatics, the performance gap shrunk and then ended up going the other way.
  At this point there's not enough reason for a true manual stickshift transmission. It's no longer faster or more economic, so it's just a pure fun. Which is fine, but does make it hard to actually design one for any given model of car.
  
  In the US it’s not really even cheaper - as in maybe you could save a couple hundred on a few models but most won’t offer a choice and it’s nothing in proportion to the cost of the car and the chances of finding one are so small it’s not even worth trying for most cars. There may be a few - are jeeps still available?
  My favorite car was a Miata with a stick (even though I’m too tall to fit) - maybe I need to track down an older one before they’re gone forever
- EVs don't shift
  I know there's no reason for them to, but a small part of me wishes there was. Something so satisfying about being good at managing gears
  
  There are simulated transmissions for the weirdos.
  
  I seem to recall some EV having a 2 speed transmission. A modern one, not like the Electrek that had a 5 speed manual
  
  So true. I’ve never been more tempted to keep a classic car, even if it’s just an old shit box with manual transmission.
- Isn't the civic si series all manual?
  
  The Si and the R! They both sell like hotcakes, waited 8 months for my 2024 Si. I'm not sure why Honda doesn't increase the volume, there's still a lot of demand - maybe the margins aren't as good as their SUVs :(
  
  I bought a civic in 2006 and it took 6 weeks to get one. A manual would have taken much longer
- Had a manual 2016 Mazda 3. Took a bit to find it with all the options I wanted but it was available at the time.

I still hate to this day one of my parents cars. The gear shift is on the side of the radio and the radio controls(what isn’t touch screen) are underneath.
- What the hell is this design.
  
  Bringing back the classics! Great-grandad had one, he'd be right at home.
- Bruh, that's almost worse than Tesla

Daddy needs his coffee.
Seriously, the automatic is so much better for using a truck as a tool. I still drive a stick right now and I'm lucky I miss rush hour most days because we start and end early, one job site.
I'd never choose a manual for dealing with taking tools and materials around the Metro while the assholes I'm trying to service cut me off in stop and go traffic.
And IMO we need to start racing EVs, leave combustion for the 20th century old timer events
oshit I have been bamboozled by a shitpost
- I love my automatic transmission and cruise control, but I do think that I may have been a better driver when I drove stick. By necessity, I had to pay closer attention to the road than I have to today.
  
  Just by realizing that you probably pay more attention than 90% of those goblins on the road.
  
  It helps you become more innately aware of your speed. Gear (which you know either by remembering which one you last shifted to or by touching your shifter) and rpm (which you know by ear and responsiveness) are enough (once you become familiar enough with the vehicle) to have a good idea of how fast you're going without even glancing at the speedometer.
  Also engine braking gives more control over speed and I'm used to doing it, so can add the action to emergency situations without having to think about it so much.
  Though the comparison is different when the paddle shifters are involved. I still prefer stick shift over that semi-auto style, but see that as more of a personal preference than technically superior. If anything, semi-auto is probably the superior one.
  Though I'd also add the caveat of the technical differences between all three not being significant overall in practical terms. The biggest difference is probably just that driving MT takes additional skill that not everyone has or is comfortable learning/using. Which is nice as an anti theft feature but can be annoying if you want to trade off driving but the other drivers can't drive your vehicle.

As a classically trained driver I’ve found automatics make people drive worse because they have to think less. And they already barely think.
- Stupid is as stupid does. A significant portion of trucking accidents involve the truck driver missing a cue because they were mid gear change.
  While it is good to have a person learn to drive stick, it is really hard to get people to learn how to drive if they have zero interest in actually learning how to be a driver, no matter what transmission.
  I personally like dual clutch transmissions and daily'ed a car to 175k miles with one, yet I went out of my way to find a manual version of my current car.
- Manual occupies their phone hand. How is someone supposed to heart content so the algorithm gives them more of it!
  Using the PRiNDle opens one up for so many activities.
  
  using the PRiNDle
  Would you like AMMMMM or FMMMMM?
- What the fuck is a "classically trained driver"?
  
  He was taught by the same institute that taught Beethoven to drift.
  
  Didn't go to one of those lousy postmodern driving schools I think
  
  like going to a prestigious school for drivers? julihart for driving?
  
  Like Robert Wells or Bill Nye.
  
  Mom took him to a big office building parking lot on a Sunday when it was quiet. At least that's how this classically trained driver learned.
- I've actually observed the opposite. Automatics leave more brain cells to focus on traffic.
  "Self driving" cars on the other hand...
  
  They use them to focus on their phones, not the road
- Do you sing an aria by Mozart or something when you drive? But anyway, in my experience driving manual makes people more distracted because they have to think about gears and the clutch and stuff. Sure, a competent driver will not have any difficulty with that, but there's an awful lot of them out there that don't quite fall into that category.
  
  You must not know how to drive a manual. When you know how to drive one, you don’t think about it. You just do it. You feel connected to the car and connected to the act of driving. Automatics absolutely allow people to go on autopilot and they focus on anything but driving: stuffing their face with food, browsing lemmy, texting, talking on their phone on speaker while holding it up to their mouth for some fucking reason even though it would be easier and better sound quality to just hold it up to their ear like phones were designed to be used, or you know, just use the fucking hands free phone calling that’s built into every fucking car that was made in the last decade and a half and included in every cheap ass aftermarket stereo system available on the planet
  
  No I let my exhaust do the singing. It’s like playing a really simple pipe organ.
- Now think about how much worse they would drive if they had to switch their concentration from the road to the transmission.
- Only just noticed Your username. For a moment I thought You were serious.
  
  If I was serious I’d say no human is sane enough to drive.
- I mean, I've driven only automatics my whole life, with the odd exception of a friend's ATV or whatnot, but I know when and how to use an e brake (and/or dual foot the brake pedal and gas pedal) to start a car on an incline, when said car has an automatic transmission...
  EDIT: Also, most automatics will let you attempt a rolling start in neutral... I've done this many times, either rolling downhill or having people push.
  You're not gonna uninvent automatic transmissions.
  Assuming you're American (I doubt a non American would name themselves 'Boomer Humor'), what you could do is mandate people completely retest, written and driving tests, for their liscenses every 5 years, then every 2 years after some age cutoff (60? 65?) then every single year after another age cutoff (70? 75?)... instead of just assuming that because they passed the test once in their life, all their skills and knowledge are perfect and up to date for the rest of their lives.
  Most people think they are much better drivers than they actually are, so lets actually reality check them on that.
  
  I would be so happy if we had stringent driving tests like in Europe. Hell, I’d gladly be re-tested every year if it meant people knew which lane to use and what turn signals were for.

• Wanted to Start on a Steep Hill? We had a Tool for that: it was Called "Flooring the Gas while letting go off the Clutch"
IT AIN'T NO GOOD MORNIN' WITHOUT THE SMELL OF NICELY BURNED CLUTCH
- We'd park my buddies Mustang on a hill wherever we went in case it wouldn't start. LOL, everyone made fun of him saying it was a Pinto. (<- it was this, but really, really shitty)
  
  Ah the Mustang II. What a historically bad letdown.
- I was going to say, I always had my e-brake on when I parked my car and so I always started the car with it on.
  Does he mean slowly let off the clutch while releasing the e-brake? Does he put on his e-brake if he stops on a hill, in traffic too!
  
  I've had to use the ebrake method before for a hill that was wayyyy too steep and a fence gate closed behind me.
  You basically just let off the clutch and press on the gas until the car wants to move forward, then you let off the e brake and go without going backwards.
  
  If you're on a steep hill, yes sometimes you need to use the handbrake to get moving. This had to be demonstrated when I got my licence, but to be fair some manual vehicles now have automatic hill start. Still a good technique to learn because it doesn't always activate.

US: predominantly automatic transmission, low speed limits
Germany: predominantly manual transmission, higher speed limits and no limits on around half of autobahns (motorways)
US road deaths per capita twice of Germany.
Draw your own conclusions.
- Probably more related to the god-awful infrastructure design in the US, like stroads and an unfathomable tendency to use stop signs for a lot of things they are just not fit for, like to replace speed bumps, chicanes, and roundabouts.
  Also the better comparable statistic should be deaths per distance traveled in cars.
  
  Here is the list 6.9 vs 4.2 deaths per 1 billion km. 12.8 vs. 3.35 per 100'000 inhabitants.
  But you need both for a fuller puncture, not everyone involved/dieing is in a vehicle.
  
  Not to mention the DUI rates in the US are astronomical. Over 1/3 of motor fatalities are alcohol related in the US.
  
  Germany has much stricter requirements to get a driver’s license. That leads to better driving skills on average.
  
  Chicanes are the best part about riding a sport bike! I get to drag knees on public roads!
- I would, but I ran out of crayons
- What if we're too American to draw an appropriate conclusion from that?
  
  How many football field sized conclusions would it be?
- Quick Google
  In 2024 36% of Germans reported using the car daily.
  In 2023 95.3% of Americans older than 16 drive on occasions.
  83 million Germans, 63% above 16
  340 million Americans, 65% above 16
  52 million potential drivers in Germany, 17 million actually drive
  221 million potential drivers in America, 210 million drive daily
  17 million vs 210 million daily drivers
  ~12x more drivers, only 2x more death
  Per capita isn't really a way to look at it
  Besides automatic cars or lack of a manual transmission is not causing accidents.
  Chance of death goes up significantly with speed
  No one has ever crashed because they couldn't go over the speed limit
  
  Downvoters mad to find out cars are inherently unsafe and need very good infrastructure and to be remotely safe.
  Downvoters mad that E_k= ½mv², and speed, funnily enough, is dangerous.
  Downvoters mad that manual transmission isn't making cars safer.
  Car go vroom vroom, but public transport go better
  Fax
  
  83 million Germans, 63% above 16
  Not sure why you think this is relevant. Children aren’t allowed to drive in Germany.

I have never owned a car with an automatic transmission, and I am proud of that fact
- I've owned ten cars and eight were manual transmission. Currently driving a 2020 Subaru Crosstrek with a manual. We bought it for my wife but she developed severe hip problems right after we bought it. So I made it my own - a 2" lift, smaller wheels with off road tires, aftermarket intake and exhaust, added a subwoofer under the passenger seat, tinted the windows etc.
  I probably wouldn't have bought it for me but now I love it. It's been up some crazy mountain trails where the only other people I saw at the top were in jeeps or similar. It's been in deep snow and deep sand. I've even broken an axle, no regrets. I use it to it's full potential and I love being able to be in exactly the gear I want to be.
  
  That sounds absolutely rad! Glad you’re having a blast, friend.
- what a silly ass thing to take pride in.

Handbrake start? Pffft.. what a noob.
It's called the parking brake and it's for parking. You have the pedal for when you're driving. You can use that while leaving from a hill, it's really not that difficult, you just hop from the brake pedal to the biting point on the clutch.
I mean it'd be sort of a bitch on the clutch if it's like a 40 degree hill and it's a rental and it's the first time you're even moving it at all and you've no idea of where the biting point is, but you should never be in a position where that's the very first time you drive a specific car. And after having driven a car once, you ought to know the biting point.
Thus, "handbrake start"? Noob shit.
3rd gen (former) taxi driver
edit my dad also taught me how to switch gears without the clutch without raping the gearbox. all about giving it a bit of gas while it's off gear to match the rpm's. it's rather trivial once you get the feel for it, but you need to understand the rpm range the gears can do obvs and not downshift while on high rpm or something like that
- For real! Who uses the handbreak apart from actually parking somewhere? Even then it's not required, though I prefer it that way.
  
  Well the most use we ever got out of parking brakes was when driving front wheel drive cars in the winter so you can lock your back tires so you can slide around the snowy corners.
  God I miss that now.
- I bought a new car with a manual transmission this year. It has a cool feature called “hill start assist”. Basically for the first 3 seconds I won’t roll backwards. It’s been nice.
  
  Yeah sound's decent enough.
  I haven't driven new cars since like 2019 so I'm a bit behind and not aware of the most recent developments

When car companies start charging for heated seats.. that’s why I stop buying brand new cars and go for older ones

My Volkswagen flashes a message when I put the key in the ignition; "Depress clutch to start"
So I tell it that the majority of Yanks don't know how to use it and it starts every time.

You guys do realize this is supposed to be a parody of boomer bullshit arguments right?
- They don't, and that's the way I like 'em!
  
  Yeah but I love my manual tbh
- No! Dey takin our caaaaars

Oh good I got here before the lemmy fuck cars brigade showed up
- LET'S FUCKING TAKE THE BUS
- Hi, !fuckcars mod here. I absolutely love my manual transmissions and unironically fully endorse this meme.
  I think you might be surprised at just how much crossover there is between car enthusiasts and people who hate car dependency. Cars ought to be like horses: they should be available for enthusiasts to play with, but it should be wholly unnecessary and considered kinda ridiculous to use them as routine transportation, especially in cities.
  Frankly, I would prefer it if all transmissions were manual, as it would help encourage people who see driving as a chore to use other transportation modes instead.
  
  Yeah I honestly love driving, but I love walking and biking too. Just because I'm a car enthusiast doesn't mean that I don't wish that my city was more walkable or had actual public transport.

I'm suddenly reminded of some ai-death clock site I saw recently. It predicted my death on May 13st.
- You'll die of 3st

i miss my stick
- There must be a trans joke in here somewhere.
  
  don't eat the crab dip!
- Happens at higher age

The perfect transmission UI was the Teletouch on the Ford Edsel. And if anyone tries to argue I'll say "nuh uh," run away, and cry.
- Agreed

Lol that handbrake start is utterly useless if you live anywhere that's actually hilly all over.
You've got to learn the proper clutchwork from the very start or you'll be taking years on every hill.
Unless you're starting from a cold start on a hill without ABS, I guess it could a safety precaution.
- I live in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and regularly drove my standard transmission in San Francisco (one of the hilliest cities in North America), and used my hand brake all the time to maintain my position while I engaged the transmission. I'm not really sure what you're on about...
  
  As a manual driver living in Seattle and driving a large truck, I can say it's totally unnecessary if you have the right skills. The handbrake start is a handicap unless you're Dr ving a vehicle with a worn out clutch.
- that handbrake start is utterly useles
  In my native country that was a requirement for the driving test.
- Yeah, I've heard tons of tricks over the years.
  Just be fast. That's the trick, practice and you'll get fast at applying just the right amount of clutch in an instant.
- I'm curious, how do u do it? I mean you need a foot on gas and one on the clutch to start, how do you keep your car still without handbrake (other than just being quick after moving away from the brake)?
  
  It's a quick motion, but the essence is that while moving from the brake to the gas, you're also starting to apply the clutch to grab even at the still idle speed of the engine. It's not several steps but a fluid motion, and as weird as it sounds, it's something you pick up by feeling what the car needs to maintain the right engine speed while also not engaging the clutch too much and causing lugging or a stall. It's why most new manual drives start in a empty level place like a parking lot and practice just going from stop to moving slowly, over and over. I also told both my boys the first time they got behind the wheel the same thing my dad did - you WILL stall out the first time. And they did. :D But they both have and love driving stick now, and hate if they have to drive someone's automatic.

I've always had a manual car. I love them. That is until I ended up dating a younger woman and we moved in together. Several years later the manual turned into the second car only I drove. That got sold and we now have two cars she can drive.
One day I might teach her how to drive manual. We live in a really flat area with no major hills, so it shouldn't be a problem. One day maybe,
- I always drive manual but my husband likes automatic. My kids learned on his car but my penultimate daughter drives mine to school now. I dunno, shifting seems easy to learn once you know how to drive in general - I learned it because everyone else was drunk one night so I had to drive home, when I was a teenager, and the drunk kid's car was manual.
  ETA: I let the school kids use the car and got myself an e-bike because their commute loop is much longer than mine. I have an enjoyable ride in to work. But tell them to baby the car because it may be my last gas-powered car and I will miss the stick shift. Have not had an automatic transmission car for 30 years now.
  
  penultimate daughter
  Does that sounds a bit ominous to anyone else? :D
  
  I “joke” I am gonna teach my son how to drive a manual just in time for electric cars to render them entirely obsolete…
  but at least he’ll be prepared if the zombie apocalypse happens in the next 10-15 years…
  
  As a Brit, I still find it staggering that some places allow you to drive a manual without having learned how to. It's two separate licences over here.

Bought a new car last fall and looked everywhere for a manual, they are indeed getting rare in the US. Ended up with a Jeep Gladiator sport because it's a convertible 4x4 with a stick shift and so far the driving experience has been nice. You can tell Stellantis cheaps out on some of the plastic trim stuff and we'll see just how reliable it is after a few years. Would be sweet if Toyota would make a convertible or T-top 4runner with a stick shift in the US.
- Jeeps are the bottom of the barrel for reliability and build quality, so godspeed on your journeys.
  
  buying a jeep just means you have at least 2 cars because one of them will be in the shop more often than not.
- Manuals are definitely niche now and mainly in sporty cars (Civic SI, Type R, BRZ, Supra, etc).
- Do you also pay people to whip you? It seems like you like being hurt.

I own a 2020 Subaru WRXSTI manual and I’ve enjoyed every minute of it.

I drive manual every day, ~~except when I ride my bike instead of driving.~~
Edit for accuracy, my bike is manual too lol
- Your bike has automatic transmission?
  
  Perhaps it has no transmission, you know, like in the good old times.
  
  Well, shit, that's manual too: I stand corrected.
  There are automatic bike transmissions for both bicycle and moto though I don't have them.
  I wouldn't call riding a bike driving though.

The driving school I went to would fail people that used the "handbrake start" on a hill.
And also fail people that tried to drive backwards by looking back instead of using the mirrors.
- And also fail people that tried to drive backwards by looking back instead of using the mirrors.
  Huh, that's interesting because I was tought to do the opposite. In practice, I do whichever feels right, usually mirrors but I've noticed in pickups I'd rather just look back

I used to drive stick in one of the most dense cities and worst traffic on the planet. My left calf muscle is noticeably larger than my right. Manual is enjoyable and freeing, but at this point I prefer an automatic in urban areas with heavy traffic. The volume knob shifter is still weird though.
- I live in a city famous for it's bad traffic, but prefer driving a manual anyway (when driving a car, at least -- actual first place goes to riding my bicycle).
  
  Yeah, but when it takes an hour to drive 4 kms, it gets old pretty quick.

No thanks. I switched to automatic shortly after I moved to Reading where I found in all the stop start traffic I was constantly dancing the clutch fandango and heading for having a left leg like a tree trunk.

I actually like the volume knob shifter. The buttons ones I can live without.
- Joke is that it is an automatic
  
  If an automatic is good enough for the 70 Series Land Cruiser, it is good enough for me.

i like automatics for easier to crank the driveshaft

But what about semi auto/manual transmission like DCT (dual clutch transmission) or sequential transmission ?

What about those of us who use our triptronic transmission? I manually shift down constantly to take advantage of engine braking to make my brakes last longer. I used to ride a motorcycle so it made sense to me. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic

I will continue to steadfastly drive only with my disease transmission

So glad I change gears to walk up hill

Handbrake start is only if you sucked at driving a manual ;-)
- Depends on how steep the hill is and how precise you need to be with your position. Parallel parking in San Francisco almost requires the handbrake.
  
  You can use one foot for the gas and brake at the same time. I've drove manuals for over 20 years. Including split shift commercial trucks that didn't have hand brakes.