Rednote right now

The conversations are amazing

734 comments

- For real imagine living in a country where a faceless entity logs all of your financial activity without your consent and distills that information to summarize a person's character into a numerical score used to lock people out of securing housing or finding work, dystopian nightmare
  
  Facebook turned over chat messages between mother and daughter now charged over abortion.
  This woman is serving two years in prison. But yeah, tell us how the US isn't "Orwellian".
  
  If you have bad credit in the US, it prevents you from getting housing, or even renting an apartment.
  As people posted to you several times, china's credit score exists to keep tabs on companies, and prevent excesses and corruption. Basic regulatory things that the US used to do in a few decades ago, but is now considered "authoritarian".
  
  And prevents from getting a car, the main mode of transport in the US. Talking about being able to ride a bus in the US is comical.
  
  Talking about being able to ride a bus in the US is comical.
  Depends where you live. It's much more doable in the densest urban areas than it is somewhere rural. I have a friend who lives in Boston for example and he doesn't have a car, at all. Because Boston's mass transit is good enough for his routine needs. I can't do that here, however.
  
  If you have bad credit in the US, it prevents you from getting housing, or even renting an apartment.
  it also prevents you from getting a job nowadays and more and more employers are insisting on it.
  
  It's kinda weird honestly, capitalists should like when the worker is in debt because then the worker would be more desperate to get a job and agree on worse conditions. not to mention entire system is set up to put workers into debts and thus prevent them from organising and instead forcing them to work more for less.
  
  it's another filter
  
  There’s also no credit-score check in the US for job applications, so no, it doesn’t “lock people out of finding work.”
  Employers may use credit report information to verify an applicant's identity and to look for signs of excessive debt or past financial mismanagement. Source: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/why-employers-check-your-credit-report-and-what-they-see/
  Employers discriminate very openly against applicants for a variety of reasons. Nepotism is one such way, AI filtering is an emergent way - there are plenty of other practices.
  Good luck getting a job if you were ever convicted of a crime, no matter how innocuous, or even had a police report filed against you (for certain jobs with clearances) - with no convictions, evidence, or arrest. Even being arrested with charges dropped can disqualify you effectively.
  And you better believe if you actually got arrested, every local newspaper has doxxed you - with full name, mug shot, even potentially your employment history and rough home address. All it takes is a name to get somebody's address because people search websites exist to compile all of the wonderful publicly available information.
  
  Read beyond that point. The West distorts the scope and nature of the credit system to ludicrous degrees, nobody claims that there’s no such thing.
  
  As I responded to you elsewhere, I did read beyond that point. Are you sure that you did?
  I read the whole article, as it went on to describe more of what has been reported as having a “social credit score”, and gave more details about how it’s administered.
  Basically, the headline is “no, it’s not at all what you’ve heard”, and then the article goes on to describe exactly what has been reported in the US. I’m not sure your point about “there’s no credit score that is administered by the Chinese government with a mechanism for blacklisting you and restricting you everywhere” is well-supported by an article that describes a credit score that is administered by the Chinese government that operates blacklists that are enforced under the slogan “whoever violates the rules somewhere shall be restricted everywhere.”
  If that’s not actually how it works, then you need to provide a credible source that proves that’s not how it works. Providing a source that reports that yes, that’s exactly how it works doesn’t serve your argument. And “well but the West is totally lying, maaan” isn’t proof; it’s an unverified claim by a random internet commenter.
  
  No, it does not describe "exactly as what the western media depicted." The west reported utterly nonsense and unfounded ideas of facial recognition and tracking, among other ludicrous ideas out of a necessity to sensationalize.
  
  I literally live in China. The scores apply to businessmen and not the average citizen. China isn't North Sentinel Island, you can literally come here.
  
  So which part of this do you think is the part that addresses the clear and salient arguments you're arguing against?
  
  Use your critical thinking skills, imagine a bus in a city of 10 million people during rush hour at a busy stop -- do you honestly think they're checking everyone's credit score before they get on? This shit is fake you have been duped
  And how exactly would an individual be subject to oversight in matters like "taxation, the environment, transportation, e-commerce, food safety, and foreign economic cooperation, as well as failing to carry out court judgments"? I know we have citizens united but corporations are not people lol
  
  I know we have citizens united but corporations are not people lol
  Citizens United didn't make corporations people. Corporate personhood had been a thing for a very long time, largely about whether or not forming a business means you lose legal rights operating under it (Does a business entity have freedom of speech? What does freedom of the press even mean in an 18th century context if it doesn't apply to a business [aka a newspaper]?) and whether or not regular old laws prohibiting a person from doing a thing can be applied to businesses.
  
  Ok
  
  Does this "being obtuse so as to not have to engage with an argument" shtick normally work?
  
  Why would such a feature need facial recognition? Just use the ID on the travel pass and done - cheaper, faster, and harder to fake if done properly.
  
  The bus and metro passes are literally transferrable because they're just a token not tied to any ID. Also they accept cash, and you can buy passes at a kiosk.
  I have personally even purchased a metro ticket for another person because we were going somewhere together and they left theirs at home. Within the last 2 weeks.
  You have been lied to. There are no WMDs in Iraq, MSG isn't toxic, and Napoleon wasn't short either, if you just blatantly swallow everything you see.
  
  Instead of speculating on how it could be done, show us how it actually is done.
  
  Use your critical thinking skills, imagine a bus in a city of 10 million people during rush hour at a busy stop – do you honestly think they’re checking everyone’s credit score before they get on? This shit is fake you have been duped
  Again, citation needed. "There's literally no way an internet-connected society that already requires payment to board a bus, usually via something like tap-to-pay, could ever possibly check your ID against a list of IDs before you get on the bus" is not convincing. Evidence is convincing, and I've seen none so far. I've only seen an article reporting that it actually happens.
  The quote you're saying is ridiculous is from the article provided describing how the social credit system actually works in real life. If you can give me a credible source that demonstrates this isn't happening (instead of just your own lack of imagination to conceptualize tech that is already broadly implemented worldwide) then maybe that'd be more convincing than "I can't personally imagine how that would work, so it's impossible!"
  
  A still from some random persons shitty travel blog taken 6 months ago of her getting on the bus in China. What do you think that box is for, cookies for the driver?
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Ie9HYWejc
  Feel free to watch for yourself, this is around minute 23. It took me 30 seconds to find this
  By the way exchanges like this is why many people on left instances are outright hostile to liberals, making outlandish claims while being too fucking lazy to do even the bare minimum of independent research, racism to discount the voices of the people who are actually fucking from there saying 'no this is bullshit'
  Like who are you going to believe a regurgitation of a state department talking point or a website full of normal ass Chinese people
  I know the answer bc like all liberals you are racist and intellectually lazy
  
  I live in China. You put ¥2 into the slot and you get on. You can be wearing a fully balaclava, a face mask, or nothing. No-ones running ID on you to make sure your magical score is high enough before you are allowed to get on. You can get a transit token so you can tap on if you're cashless. They're sold without ID checks, foreigners can get them without speaking a word of Mandarin.
  You have been lied to and now you're repeating those lies on the internet without even getting paid.
  
  ¥2
  u fukin wot
  that's 10p
  I can't get a bus 200m for less than a pound
  
  Again, citation needed.
  But not if it's you saying racist shit lmao
  
  Alright, then let's see the citations
  
  Here, drew a picture of you
  
  Imagine having the internet at your disposal, being able to immediately investigate your own assumptions, but instead you choose to just state blatantly wrong things and then get mad when you're called out for it.
  Consider wether digging a hole and then staying in it would be right for you. Consult your doctor
  
  If I have bad credit in the US, I don’t get locked out of riding the bus
  You might!
  I know a lot of areas are switching to digital-only bus fares, and those, of course, require a bank card or credit card...
  Guess what can lock you out of getting those, and thereby, riding on the bus?
  There’s also no credit-score check in the US for job applications, so no, it doesn’t “lock people out of finding work.”
  Do you live in the US? Lots of employers run credit checks as a part of their normal background checking. I've see people fired for bad credit scores.
- Edit: the removed comment said that the social credit score existed based on this Wikimedia article.
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
  In the Wikipedia article itself:
  There has been a widespread misconception that China operates a nationwide and unitary social credit "score" based on individuals' behavior, leading to punishments if the score is too low. Media reports in the West have sometimes exaggerated or inaccurately described this concept.[7][8][9] In 2019, the central government voiced dissatisfaction with pilot cities experimenting with social credit scores. It issued guidelines clarifying that citizens could not be punished for having low scores, and that punishments should only be limited to legally defined crimes and civil infractions. As a result, pilot cities either discontinued their point-based systems or restricted them to voluntary participation with no major consequences for having low scores.[7][10] According to a February 2022 report by the Mercator Institute for China Studies (MERICS), a social credit "score" is a myth as there is "no score that dictates citizen's place in society".[7]
- no "Winnie the Pooh" refs
  "they won't let me call the chinese man yellow" good, die mad
  
  fuck off racist shitbag
  
  You're the one who wrongly assumed it was about race, not me.
  
  i'm not here to judge how chinese people use memes. i'm here to tell you, a racist, to eat shit
  
  You're the only one talking about race, here, making you the racist.
  
  Dutch guy getting beat up after doing blackface: "Waah! It's a important cultural practice! You don't understand, it has nothing to do with race, Dutch people just have folklore stories about dark skinned fantasy creatures coming and stealing our stuff! You're the ones making it about race!"
  
  Buddy you're the one comparing my personal friend Xi Jinping to a yellow bear, how do you not see how close to blackface that is
  
  You’re deeply unserious if you’re actually bringing up Jon Stewart and John Oliver.
  Since you’re such a big fan, maybe you can tell me when Stewart is gonna apologize for that horrible transphobic joke he did about 20 years ago?
  
  did you just step off a tardis from 2015
  
  talking about race doesn't make someone a racist. comparing chinese people to yellow-skinned cartoon animals does.
  
  New tagline dropped @CARCOSA@hexbear.net
  
  go back to reddit you deplorable shitbag
  
  This tactic didn't work in kindergarten either. Try to move on and grow up
  
  wasnt the whole thing literally started by chinese people? were all those weibo users cia assets or people with internalized racism?
  
  Black people started using the n word among themselves casually, doesn't mean other people can just copy it and shield themselves from accusations of racism by saying Black people were doing it first.
  
  so comparing xi to pooh is the same as calling a black person the n word? i wonder if chinese or asian people hold the same opinion
  
  Now you're just being obtuse. It's really sad you think what you're doing isn't obvious. For the onlookers: This is what happens when you don't get mental and social stimulus.
  
  Yeah I should hope what I'm doing is obvious, I'm being honest and upfront about it. You should try it some time.
  Hey please point out the propaganda I've been hit by. Educate me please, I love to be wrong. Cite your sources.
  
  This is your brain on microplastics
  
  And are you Chinese?
  I'm happy you've got a Chinese friend that tells you it's okay to be racist.
  The fact that you're unwilling to acknowledge the fact that this redditor shibboleth got popular amongst a bunch of white people has nothing to do with them finding yet another socially acceptable way to be racist is telling a lot we already knew about you.
  If a reactionary org of black people (I dunno of one but I'm sure there's some church or something) had satirically depicted Obama as curious George, do you think you could get away with calling him a monkey without being (rightfully) called a racist?
- It really is astounding how much every sinophobes source is inevitably just Wikipedia.
  
  Which in turn its Adrian Zenz 😂
  
  Umm no it isn't sweaty, it clearly says the source is [organisation founded by Adrian zenz] and [organisation that funds Adrian zenz]
  
  More and more I see them just sending either a duckduckgo search, or the first few links from that search, which is of course always from anglo-supremacist news sources.
  
  It's too bad the people of China aren't allowed to edit Wikipedia, and correct the facts, because of their oppressive state.
  
  🤣 https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-internet-is-flooded-with-wikipedia-edits-made-by-government-and-big-oil/
  
  They literally dont care since they have a dozen better alrernatives 😂
  
  Are they better, though?
  I mean, last I checked, Wikipedia is far more accurate than most encyclopedias professionally assembled. And, to add to it: Wikipedia is certainly well sourced, and admits its biases quite openly, and in fact are working to correct those biases.
  So, what Chinese-based wikipedia alternatives are out there? And I mean, communally owned, maintained, and edited encyclopedia, which, quite frankly, is one of the best examples of a communist endeavors one can find on the internet at this time...
  
  I mean, last I checked
  Lol, what do you mean "checked"? You're just assuming its accurate based on your pre-existing biases.
  
  I'm assuming it's still as accurate as the data previously showed, and because I'm an active editor there, who works quite hard to ensure what I edit is reliably sourced.
  
  Oh, so you didn't check.
  
  If you have evidence of the contrary, I'd be happy to see it.
- To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear. You can talk about Pooh, just not in the way westerners tend to want to.
  As for the Social Credit system, the version reported in western media is false and exaggerated. There is a credit system, but it's largely for businesses and other social entities, not some Orwellian big brother system.
  
  To be clear, it is overwhelmingly Westerners that wish to depict a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
  Really? Because all sources that I can find trace the origin to Xi’s visit to the Philippines back in 2017.
  http://hongkongfp.com/2018/11/20/filipinos-flood-social-media-winnie-pooh-memes-xi-jinping-visits-manila/
  https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2018/11/21/2003704655
  https://www.philstar.com/headlines/2018/11/21/1870392/winning-pooh-images-flood-social-media-xi-jinping-arrives
  
  It originated as a group picture of Obama as Tigger with Xi as Pooh in 2013, not 2017. Your own sources dispute what you're saying. What has come from that isn't a continuation of that trend of group pictures, but a singular insistence of depicting a Chinese man as a yellow bear.
  
  The blocking of Winnie the Pooh might seem like a bizarre move by the Chinese authorities but it is part of a struggle to restrict clever bloggers from getting around their country's censorship.
  First paragraph from your source. China blocks it to prevent bloggers in China from making the comparison (kinda hard for them to block it on Facebook as China does not have control there). That's also where this meme started.
  I'm also fairly certain that Pooh having yellow fur is mostly just coincidental (it'd be a bit surprising if Chinese citizens created a racist meme against another Chinese man). The offensiveness of the meme is much more related to Pooh being quite dim and just general fatshaming, not racism. That's not to say you can't use the meme in a racist way, just that the origins seemingly aren't racist.
  
  In my understanding the racist part of the original meme is the Obama been Tigger(one letter away from the N word)
  
  Really?! Unsurprising, but that makes the entire thing even worse.
  
  Hmm, could be. Although the meme did take off way more with Xi than it ever did with Obama. And other comparisons were made with Eeyore and Piglet, which iirc were mostly due to facial expressions and choice of clothing (it was a shorter lady wearing pink I believe).
  But I hadn't thought of that connection yet. I figured it was mostly physical resemblance (posture and size).
  
  I'm aware that it's China that takes down the racist caricatures. The meme started more innocently, with Pooh being Xi and Tigger being Obama. This turned into western users overwhelmingly sticking with Xi as Pooh. The origins and what stuck are different entirely in intent and character.
  
  But as far as I know China isn't taking down Obama-Tigger comparisons. So Chinese netizens are also sticking with the Xi-Pooh comparison (otherwise China wouldn't bother taking it down anymore), which doesn't seem to match with what you're describing as likely intent, nor with who is making the comparisons.
  You seem pretty convinced it's mostly racist westerners using the meme, but do you have anything other than a gut feeling to back this up? Because the actions of the Chinese government seem to suggest it's mostly a domestic problem to them. And for those Chinese users it seems to have taken off as a way to avoid the censors (which is now ineffective, and has morphed into a point of principle).
  
  I missed that. Thanks. So does that meme from the west outweigh Xi’s entire Philippino welcoming and barrage of memes, prompting the banning of the word Pooh in Chinese media, justify your claim that it’s overwhelmingly Westerners?