Breaking: Trump Verdict Livethread
Breaking: Trump Verdict Livethread
Jury HAS reached a verdict. 11 hours, 43 minutes.
Developing.
Analysis is saying the jury using the word "verdict" indicates this is not a hung jury.
Jury has asked for more time to fill out paperwork, which makes sense, 34 counts x 12 jurors, 408 line items?
Judge has now called for the jury.
Detail on each count here, 3 basic categories:
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1848/trump-hush-money-trial-34-counts
Trump was charged with falsifying business records in the first degree.
Invoices for legal services
Guilty on 11 of 11 charges
Checks paid for legal services
Guilty on 11 of 11 charges
Ledger entries for legal expenses
Guilty on 12 of 12 charges
No bail, sentencing on July 11th, 4 days before the Republican convention.
Defense has until 6/13 to file motions, prosecution has until 6/27 to respond.
Trump is responding predictably. Attacking the judge and the whole process.
Jury HAS reached a verdict. 11 hours, 43 minutes.
Developing.
Analysis is saying the jury using the word "verdict" indicates this is not a hung jury.
Jury has asked for more time to fill out paperwork, which makes sense, 34 counts x 12 jurors, 408 line items?
Judge has now called for the jury.
Detail on each count here, 3 basic categories:
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1848/trump-hush-money-trial-34-counts
Trump was charged with falsifying business records in the first degree.
Invoices for legal services
Guilty on 11 of 11 charges
Checks paid for legal services
Guilty on 11 of 11 charges
Ledger entries for legal expenses
Guilty on 12 of 12 charges
No bail, sentencing on July 11th, 4 days before the Republican convention.
Defense has until 6/13 to file motions, prosecution has until 6/27 to respond.
Trump is responding predictably. Attacking the judge and the whole process.
If you're trying to keep track of where we're at in the Trump prosecutions:
Updated 05/30/2024
New York
34 state felonies
Stormy Daniels Payoff
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest
Trial
Conviction <- You Are Here Guilty, all 34 counts.
Sentencing - July 11, 2024
Washington, D.C.
4 federal felonies
January 6th Election Interference
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - The trial, originally scheduled for March 4th, has been placed on hold pending the Supreme Court ruling on Presidential Immunity. They are due to hear those arguments on April 25th.
Conviction
Sentencing
Florida
40 federal felonies
Top Secret Documents charges
Investigation
Indictment
Original indictment was for 37 felonies.
3 new felonies were added on July 27, 2023.
Arrest <- You Are Here
Trial - Postponed Indefinitely
Conviction
Sentencing
Georgia
10 state felonies
Election Interference
As of 3/13/24 - Judge McAfee cleared 6 charges, 3 against Trump, saying they were too generic to be enforced.
As of 3/15/24 - The case may proceed, but either Fulton County DA, Fani Willis and her office or Special Prosecutor Nathan Wade must remove themselves due to the appearance of impropriety.
Investigation
Indictment
Arrest <- You Are Here
All 19 defendants have surrendered.
Trial - A trial date of Aug. 5, 2024 has been requested, not approved yet.
Three defendants, Kenneth Chesebro, Sidney Powell, and bail bondsman Scott Hall, have all pled guilty and have agreed to testify in other cases.
Conviction
Sentencing
Other grand juries, such as for the documents at Bedminster, or the Arizona fake electors, have not been announced.
The E. Jean Carroll trial for sexual assault and defamation where Trump was found liable and ordered to pay $5 million before immediately defaming her again resulting in a demand for $10 million is not listed as it's a civil case and not a crimimal one. He was found liable in that case for $83.3 million.
There had been multiple cases in multiple states to remove Trump from the ballot, citing ineligibility under the 14th amendment.
The Supreme Court ruled on March 4th that states do not have the ability to determine eligibility in Federal elections.
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Damn, I don't think I felt like this since election night, 2020.
Where are all the people who insisted that this would be a hung jury / acquittal? This was an easy and quick decision. I told you NYC would do this before the weekend.
Well hopefully, they're celebrating having been wrong.
I think they've moved on to claiming Trump will never be sentenced to anything and will appeal it forever.
This is not a complicated case. His signature was on 9 of the 11 checks and there was so much testimony linking him to the crimes. Michael Cohen played a secret tape of him and Trump discussing it!
The judge bent over backwards to make the trial fair and any appeals will probably be rejected. There's just nothing to appeal.
Yeah its not like sentencing waits for appeal right?
People who have been in prison for years are still going for appeals.
I hope he's put under house arrest and is only allowed out to go to court and see his appeal rejected.
Pretty sure it’s from watching him avoid real consequences for the past decade. I never want to assume he’ll actually be punished for once, cause the world will somehow rearrange itself to bail him out.
Open and shut classified documents case? He gets a judge who would move the earth for him.
That bond that could have bankrupted him? A court slashed the value to a mere fraction at the twelfth hour.
The highest court of the land is openly corrupt and several of the members were appointed by him.
Every single time I’ve thought “surely he can’t slither out of this one,” it becomes less than a footnote in the past few years. Just can’t bring myself to hope anymore. It feels like, even if he was sentenced and exhausted all appeals, he’d snatch the election victory and become king anyway, then pass that law making himself immune to prosecution in perpetuity.
That said, I generally try to avoid normalizing it by moving the goalposts as you described. Usually I simply don’t comment, even irl, except to note the evidence and reasons he should face a consequence occasionally
Obviously I am pleased with this but I am not going as far as celebrating. I'll consider popping bottles after the sentencing and appeals.
I was very worried that some magabrain slipped their way in there and would spike this. I'm glad I was wrong.
Absolutely my #1 worry about all of these trials. Feeling hopeful about the others now.
To be fair, it would only have taken one jury to hang it and worrying about that makes sense. Happily thus has worked out in favour of justice, but it was not a given and people were right to fear that outcome. Hopefully we will see the predicted change in likely voting outcomes from unaffiliated voters and thus can be the end of MAGA over the next couple of election cycles.
Hung juries are incredibly rare. I think most people claiming that was a possibility didn't pay attention during the jury selection process. A ton of people were rejected, and most of them were because they posted something on Twitter against Trump.
There were so few Trump supporters in the jury pool that it was easy to remove them. This jury seemed pretty unbiased. It just obvious that Trump is guilty.
The prosecution had:
Checks signed by Trump Business records created by Trump's longtime CFO Pro-Trump witnesses who said he was guilty Trump's former lawyer who set it up and has already been found guilty of the same thing Trump on tape discussing hiding the payoff Phone records where he discussed it A CSPAN video of him on the phone discussing it
It never ended. Trump didn't even take the stand to explain anything.
Indeed, it was a really clear case of election interference through the falsification of business records. It is a good result and now we just have to wait and see how people react. Will he beat Biden in the election? Will he be clearly rejected? I hope things end with him not being in office, but no matter what happens he cannot pardon himself for state crimes and if he wins the election and New York sentences him to prison time then there will be a novel set of issues to resolve from there. Ideally he loses, is sentenced to prison, and spends the remainder of his life offline.
Now they've moved the goalposts to say that the judge who Trump steadily antagonized throughout the trial will be leniant on sentencing.
Didn't he bring the judge's daughter into this?
Hey, I was one of those, I'm happy to be wrong. The other person is right, I am now changing it up to say he won't see any actual punishment.
This guy has been violating court orders over and over. Any of the rest of us would be in prison by now. I'll believe in jail time or a fine that actually hurts him when I see it.
- Trump's crimes will never be investigated
- Trump's crimes will never be referred to a grand jury
- Trump will never be indicted by a grand jury
- Trump will never go to trial
- The judge will throw the case out
- The jury will not return a verdict / hung jury
- Trump will not be convicted on all counts
- Trump will not be sentenced <--- You are here
- Trump will not be punished (jail / house arrest)
- Trump will appeal and overturn the verdict
- Trump is too old and frail to serve his sentence
Yes, all except 5 (for this set of felonies). See you in July, when we maybe find out how step 8 goes.
People said all of those things. People are going to continue to be wrong.
Hello, I was one of those.
A lifetime of disappointment has taught me to keep low expectations. But when things do actually turn out well, it can be a happy surprise.
Hope for the best and expect the worst and all.
💯
Same vibe.
Yeah feels like breathing the same sigh of relief. Just hoping now another January 6th situation doesn't happen as a follow up.
I mean, the timing is all wrong. J6 had a series of dependencies associated with it.
Like, they are fucked for timing right now. Couldn't be a worse time this could have happened electorally. I guess he can campaign from prison?
I don't think he'll go to prison (would love to be proven wrong). I don't think these charges have mandatory jail time. Plus I think he will appeal this until he dies.
Yeah I don't know either. I'll watch MeidasTouch for the analysis on that. They've called pretty much every aspect of this trial correctly. Its a YT channel of all attorneys, trial lawyers, former prosecutors, etc. When it comes to law, not much better. They have former members of the NY AG office as contributors. None better.
Is it actually good? YouTube keeps pushing it in my algorithm but the titles all look like wishcasting BS so I’ve avoided it.
Its pretty far to the right (liberal/conservative), and they spam your feed constantly with click baity ass shit. Most of its not worth clicking on. Ragebait, clickbait, wishcasting, nothing burgers.
The two reasons to have been watching it until now have been Karen Friedman Agnifilo, and Michael Cohen. Both are contributors to the channel.
Karen Friedman Agnfilo is a former prosecutor in the office (30 years) that was prosecuting Trump. And Micheal Cohen is.. well.. he's Michael Cohen.
These two figures are particularly informative in regards to this trial, and so are worth watching. Once this trial is well behind us, I'm not going to be watching the channel, unless its specifically regarding a legal matter.
And that's the divide for me. This channel is great for legal analysis. But their political analysis is just, myopic, to say the least. I don't go to them for political analysis. They don't know up from down in this regard.
If you want great legal analysis, they are the best.
If you want recommendations for political analysis lmk.
I had no idea it had any legitimacy behind it (or whatever you want to call the prosecutor and Cohen).
I’m more interested in the Jimmy Kimmel level of analysis. I just can’t bring myself to give up any more actual brain power for Trump.
I’ll continue to ignore it But I appreciate the breakdown though.
Yeah its very much nitty gritty, wonk++ level analysis.
Just hoping now another January 6th situation doesn’t happen as a follow up.
If it happens it happens. We can't suspend justice because of the fear of a misguided mob.
Well said.
Also, with this current administration at the helm, there is no reason to wait around and do absolutely nothing but sit back and watch it on the teevee....bring in some muscle and don't fuck around this time. If a lot more Ashli Babbitts show up, so fucking what?
Also, maybe the current admin would give orders to PREPARE based on the OSINT alone, and share that info widely with all relevant authorities. And if Meal Team Six shows up to break things and smear their feces around government buildings and threaten the lives of others, they might meet deadly force...
Tell that to the CDC and who when giving COVID guidance during the pandemic. 😡
I'm not sure I'm following you. The CDC isn't part of the justice system.