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I don't care what system you implement, staying alive is going to require labour. We're nowhere near utopian sci-fi style post scarcity yet.
Labor is required, having a Working Class and an Owning Class is not. Workers can share ownership.
You can start your own worker's collective. I'm sure many liked minded people would like to join a company were risk and reward are shared equally.
I think that would be nice, but individual microcosms of a better system are woefully insufficient.
I do wonder what fraction of .ml actually tries to unionize their workplace or start a cooperative. Probably higher than most groups, but I'd wager it's still embarrassingly low.
human labour is a matter of nature until and if post-scarcity is achieved, although I would argue it doesn't have to be "work". It can just be fun.
Wage slavery on the other hand, isn't. It's a human construct enforced through incredible violence.
I think there is an important distinction between what is required of a human to exist and what a capitalist society refers to as labor lol
We get closer to post scarcity everyday. Just depends on if society collapses or rather we get passed this great filter.
that's not the problem at all.
the problem is that you must do labor for a particular group of people who own all of the money, and you must do something that they want you to do.
so you end up selling bullshit that destroys the planet, made with slave labor, to abusive assholes.... also, no sitting allowed, no expressing your personality, no unusual tattoos or hairstyles or then you're only allowed to do the really shitty work.btw, we've fenced off all the land and you're not allowed to sleep anywhere or gather any food without money... so which, again, is almost entirely owned by a very small group of slave masters.
nice how you're pretending like the argument is about working vs not working at all...
and btw, we do live in a post scarcity society and universal basic income works just fine and is a huge benefit to society.
You must have learned a different definition for "utopian" and are very much stretching the definition of "post scarcity". We ain't there yet, and aren't going to be for the foreseeable future.
As for the first paragraph, the vast majority of western society doesn't work that way. There are a few major examples in the US that do (Amazon comes to mind) that are rightfully criticized for it (although I wish the criticism came with a side of actual consequences).
i didn't say anything about "utopian"
Yeah, but I did. You can't just ignore individual words and respond to something I didn't even say.
i responded to some things you said, not everything...
you can't just ignore everything i said and pretend like i was responding to something else i wasn't