Alabama calls nitrogen execution method 'painless' and 'humane,' but critics raise doubts
Alabama calls nitrogen execution method 'painless' and 'humane,' but critics raise doubts
Alabama intends to put a man to death with nitrogen gas this week unless stopped by the courts. It would be the nation's first execution attempt with the method.
Alabama, unless stopped by the courts, intends to strap Kenneth Eugene Smith to a gurney Thursday and use a gas mask to replace breathable air with nitrogen, depriving him of oxygen, in the nation’s first execution attempt with the method.
The Alabama attorney general’s office told federal appeals court judges last week that nitrogen hypoxia is “the most painless and humane method of execution known to man.” But what exactly Smith, 58, will feel after the warden switches on the gas is unknown, some doctors and critics say.
“What effect the condemned person will feel from the nitrogen gas itself, no one knows,” Dr. Jeffrey Keller, president of the American College of Correctional Physicians, wrote in an email. “This has never been done before. It is an experimental procedure.”
Keller, who was not involved in developing the Alabama protocol, said the plan is to “eliminate all of the oxygen from the air” that Smith is breathing by replacing it with nitrogen.
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We know exactly what happens when people experience nitrogen hypoxia. They get confused, then they lose consciousness, then die only if deprived of oxygen for quite some time.
We know because many people have experienced it and survived (because the oxygen was switched back on). I personally know someone who experienced this in a controlled test with the military.
Voluntarily having that happen is confusing at best.
Knowing it is going to happen is terrifying, because the person knows why they are slipping away.
Like the difference between choosing to be underwater and someone forcing you underwater. The latter is going to feel like drowning immediately because of anticipation.
Sure but that’s because of execution itself rather than the method of execution. This is physically painless even though obviously the emotional impact is bound to be intense.
Not really - not being able to breathe is pretty unique here. It's very slow, and even if you don't feel pain directly, you can feel oxygen deprivation indirectly - if you've ever gone way up in altitude you'd know the feeling
At this point, why not just give them an elephant's dose of fentanyl?
That’s not what the science says. It turns out humans can’t detect oxygen deprivation, they can only detect either increased CO2 concentration or reduced pressure. (Interestingly isn’t necessarily true for other mammals, such as rats, who can detect oxygen deprivation directly.)
Since this is inert gas asphyxiation (nitrogen), it does not trigger the same suffocation response. Additionally, at volumes of O2 less than 6%, it only takes one or two breaths to cause unconsciousness, making it quite different than the effect you’d feel at altitude.
Not the "I can't breathe" feeling, the dreamy, detached state your mind goes into. The heaviness of your body.
Now imagine yourself slipping away like that, where it rapidly comes on.
Not a good way to go.
It's easy enough to miss that people can die without noticing they're in a cloud of nitrogen, but if you know it's coming?
Also, are you sure the DIY system they're building, without any help from experts, is going to be that fast
I strongly disagree, the brief, euphoric confusion of hypoxia is likely one of the most ideal ways to go.
The supposed “DIY” nature of the system in question is another matter entirely that sidesteps the only point I’ve argued here - is inert gas hypoxia a painless, quick death? Science still says yes.
The emotional response leads to a physical response...
I mean, its the same response knowing you are going to be executed. No method of execution is going to prevent what you propose is a problem with the new method. Same thing when you set up the lethal injection and then slowly go through the stages of the cocktail.
Finding out in court has a different response than being strapped down to a table while they start the process.
The whole thing is just a big torture process and we should stop doing it.
This wasn’t the discussion about whether or not we should perform executions. But whether using this gas is better if its going to be done. And it is obviously if compared to what is used now. And the argument that executing people with this gas would be traumatic is a moot point when you know what the alternative is.
An example of said training given to the untrained.
https://youtu.be/kUfF2MTnqAw?feature=shared
I wouldn't want to die that way.
The pain might not be there but the realisation is.
He's able to state that he doesn't want to die, but needs help putting the mask on.
It's a slow mental death, even if not a physically painful one, it's slow.
The humane way to kill someone is quick and painless. Not slow and painless. This is better than the injection which is slow and painful but still not humane.
Your video shows exactly how painless it is, and in fact how it can cause euphoria instead. Besides, this execution method is fundamentally different because it removes oxygen completely while maintaining normal pressure, causing unconsciousness to happen much faster with fewer physiological responses.
Obviously execution is heinous at its very core, but your criticisms don’t seem to line up with the scientific facts.
Only when he knows he's not meant to die.
If he was told he was going to die he'd be crying at the moment he realised he was dying. Which as you can see from the first time he said "I don't want to die" would be several minutes.
"Scientific facts" are studies. We're just people on the internet giving opinions.
YOU are giving opinions, I am giving facts. Here are a few peer reviewed studies that support my statements:
- Nitrogen Hypoxia in mice reduces stress instead of increases it like CO2
- Unconsciousness happens within 5-10 seconds when inhaling inert gases like helium or nitrogen, and does not trigger “suffocation” reflexes like with CO2 asphyxiation
- Nitrogen causes unconsciousness in seconds, but can cause “severe” convulsions unlike other types of gas such as propane or helium. This obviously wouldn’t bother the one dying, but it is upsetting in general.
Really, inert gas hypoxia is quite painless and fast, it’s a decent way to go. That being said, execution is barbaric practice we have no need of.
Well one of those is disputed by evidence directly. 5-10 seconds is clearly in a context irrelevant to the discussion.
But I'm glad you got a hit on your Google scholar search.
Care to read the papers too?
I don't, you're not displaying any reason at all.
I did read the papers and this process is extraordinarily similar to the process that is going to be used in the execution (immediate removal of all oxygen). Quote from the article:
The state of Alabama has predicted in federal court filings that the nitrogen gas will “cause unconsciousness within seconds, and cause death within minutes.”
This is exactly the context that is relevant to the discussion. Did you possibly have something else in mind?
That's simply not how breathing works.
This is stating unconsciousness "within seconds". How many.
120 is a normal range to pass out from complete oxygen deprivation.. That's also countable in minutes. It ranges from 30-180 seconds.
It's slow.
Read the papers.
I highly doubt you know more than the US Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board, who said:
breathing an oxygen deficient atmosphere can have serious and immediate effects, including unconsciousness after only one or two breaths. The exposed person has no warning and cannot sense that the oxygen level is too low.
Or the European Industrial Gases Association:
With no oxygen present, inhalation of only 1-2 breaths of nitrogen or other inert gas will cause sudden loss of consciousness and cause death.
(They also said that fainting is “almost immediate” with oxygen concentrations below 6% by volume.)
You profess to know how breathing works, but I believe that we need to trust the experts whose job it is to research these things. I have linked ample research that supports my points and you have given nothing supporting yours. Either put up some evidence or leave it be.
Read the actual papers. You're quoting the minimum time as the full range.
It's up to 3 minutes.
Fast and painless are not the only criteria. Looking at how america typically kills it's citizens it also clear that it has to look peaceful and respectful. Thats why they put a bag over people getting electrocuted and why they don't just fire a shotgun at your head from a close distance.
How it looks to others is not important in my view. If it looks horrible to kill someone that's because it is.
Making it worse to make it appear better is actually pretty abhorrent as far as reasoning goes.
But looking at how America typically kills its citizens means looking at the police. Because deaths caused by the police far outnumber executions.
Those deaths often look pretty horrific.