2d ago

omg

131 comments

This made my ultra-catholic mother really angry. If non-catholic people didn't go to hell, then what was the point of all the effort she was putting in? She went to church every day. She followed rules like not eating meat on Friday. To her, it was really unfair that someone might get to go to heaven without having to put in all that work. How is anybody supposed to be a good person if they're not constantly terrified of hell?
Needless to day, despite following the rules, I don't really think she lives by the spirit of her religion.
- Tell her that sounds a lot like jealousy mm-mmm
- The millennia old debate about "works"
- If non-catholic people didn’t go to hell
  Man, she's going to be extra pissed when she finds out that's not what the Church teaches, to begin with (and also been publicly published, in some capacity, for a century, now).
  
  I don't now if you could ever convince her of that.
- It's funny how they know their religions suck, and yet they just keep on keeping on.
- It's a normal response to effort and fairness. You see it in every situation where someone is treated differently and needs to make sacrifices other people don't.
  Generational trauma has good examples. "But I had to learn how to deal with x on my own!" Or "I wasn't allowed to x, x or x when I was younger!" or "but I was left alone for days!" For x, fill in words like: raise, live, express, assert, have friends, have fun, have free time, have an opinion, have boundaries, keep my hard earned money, deal with neglect, be considered less of a human being, love or be worthy of love, having a sense of safety, etc.
- If she things she 'worked' to get to Heaven, she doesn't understand salvation
  It is a gift
  We don't follow the rules to 'get into heaven', we follow the rules so people can see the public face of Jesus in our works, it is sometimes the only gospel people see, and we have a lot of regressive assholes to make up for
  
  Works or grace has been debated for ages, no idea if the Catholics have found consensus though
  
  Yeah it's been debated, but for no reason because it is a gift that cannot be bought or justified.
  You say this like it's unsettled when both a plain reading of the text as well as even a cursory understanding of Hebrew temple sacrifice culture makes it clear that the only thing that salvation hinges on is a sincere desire to accept it as a gift from Jesus.
  The REASON it has been argued is that there are some intellectually dishonest religious leadership that want people to work harder for no reason
  
  to work harder for no reason
  I think the reason might be money. There's very little money in, "Here's some free salvation for you!"
  
  Since the counter-reformation, about.
  Salvation is a gift, freely given, but we can separate ourselves from that grace by choosing to do terrible things. How much you want to consider doing good things Work is, I guess, a matter of perspective but most Evangelicals certainly view it as us saying you're saved by works.
- Imagine going to Heaven and having to sit next to the Nazi High Command at the picnic.
- I'm sorry your mom is a shitbird
  
  So am I.

131 comments